00;00;00;00 – 00;00;20;16
RYAN
We’re doing this.

JEN
All right. Hello and welcome to th – were you’re talking? Oh, my God. All right, we’ll try this again. Ryan, are you settled?

RYAN
I’m Settled.

JEN
Okay.

00;00;20;18 – 00;00;41;06
JEN
Hello, and welcome to Think Fresh, a podcast brought to you by de Novo Marketing’s Collective Creative. Coming to you from our Ideas Institute and here to talk about all things marketing. Insights on new trends, innovative ideas and marketing tools you can use in your day to day life – and whatever else we deem relevant. I’m Jen Neumann, de Novo CEO and your host.

00;00;41;08 – 00;01;04;03
RYAN
And I’m Ryan Shenefelt, account manager, innovation and education lead and resident nosy eavesdropper, always looking to push the envelope.

JEN
He is indeed very, very nosy.

RYAN
Today we’re going to talk about all things video. Jen we’re talking about video today and de Novo’s coming up on their 18th anniversary. I’m sure a lot has changed in in that timeline in video.

00;01;02;26 – 00;01;20;17
JEN
We’re an adult now. We can buy cigarettes. I think we…Maybe you can’t buy cigarettes until you’re 21. I’m not even sure how that works anymore, but in my day you could buy cigarettes and, at 18. So we can do that now. We can. I think we can smoke, but we still can’t drink.

RYAN
You can vote.

00;01;20;19 – 00;01;40;17
JEN
What?

RYAN
We can vote.

JEN
We can vote. We can vote. Not that that’s going to help, but, we can, we we’re adults now. And I have been with the agency for 17 years. In February, I actually started on my daughter’s, I think, eighth birthday. Which kind of helps me remember it every year. But yeah, February is my anniversary month.

00;01;40;17 – 00;02;01;03
JEN
And, like, I just always love the story of my first day at at de Novo when I joined as partner officially, and Heather, my former business partner, and I were working in what was essentially a closet in the Armstrong Center. And I just looked at her and I said, nobody’s paying me to be here. And she said, that’s right.

00;02;01;03 – 00;02;23;24
JEN
You better start making some phone calls. So here we are, 17 years later, 17 employees. Well, I hadn’t thought about that. That’s interesting too. So good numerology this morning.

RYAN
Well, because we’re talking about video, we are bringing in, one of our video experts here at De Novo, Annie Sexton-Stewart. Annie is our creative services manager for our video department here at De Novo.

00;02;24;00 – 00;02;49;19
RYAN
She’s got 13 years of experience in video production. A decade of which actually has been here at De Novo. She has her anniversary, her ten year anniversary this week or last week, depending on when you listen to this, listen to this episode

JEN
or two years ago.

RYAN
Right. Exactly. She’s worked with names like the Big Ten Network and PBS at Indiana University, where she got her master’s of science in design and production.

00;02;49;20 – 00;03;15;13
RYAN
She later worked with brands like Discover, MIT, Simply Organic or Acacia, the University of Iowa, City of North Liberty, Dyersville, and the Field of Dreams. Here at de Novo we like to call her our preditor because of her combination of producing and editing skills.

JEN
I would just like to clarify the spelling of preditor for our listeners. It’s PRED I TOR, a very big distinction.

00;03;15;16 – 00;03;36;13
RYAN
Annie, welcome officially to Think Fresh. You’ve been our producer since the beginning of the podcast, and we’re excited to get you in front of the microphone this time.

ANNIE
Hello. Thank you for having me. Yeah. It’s weird. It’s weird to be on this side, but I’m excited and. Yeah, February. Great month for anniversaries, it seems. I can’t believe it’s been ten years.

00;03;36;14 – 00;03;55;05
JEN
I can’t believe it’s been ten years either. But also, like, now, it’s so weird having you on this side of the microphone, because usually you’re either feeding us funny lines or you’re giving commentary on our poor performance usually, and how hard we make your job in editing sometimes. So, you get to make your job hard this time.

00;03;55;07 – 00;04;13;18
ANNIE
Yeah, yeah, that will be a very interesting challenge. I know people always either. Well, Ryan loves it, the sound of his voice, but, you know, I feel like people think they sound one way, and then they hear their voice and they’re like, oh, I sound like that? So this will be a fun experiment when I edit this episode.

00;04;13;23 – 00;04;35;18
RYAN
Annie ten years ago, I can now recount the story of you walking with the coolest jacket I have ever seen. And I still remember that jacket. Like a patchwork jacket of all of these different prints and materials. And I’m like, she’s cool. We need to hire her. I had no sway in that decision. But when they were like, how did everyone think that went?

00;04;35;18 – 00;04;53;27
RYAN
I’m like, her jacket’s so cool. She’s amazing.

JEN
Yeah, Ryan’s not actually in charge of any hiring either.

ANNIE
So I do remember that story, and I’m sad to say I have no idea where that jacket is or where it went.

RYAN
BOOO

ANNIE
I don’t know if I got rid of it on purpose or accidentally lost it throughout the years, but yes, that is a story that sticks out to me.

00;04;54;04 – 00;05;13;29
ANNIE
And thank you. Thank you for thinking I’m fashionable.

RYAN
And still to this day, fashion queen. There’s been a lot happening in the last few weeks. January is finally over. It seemed like that month lasted roughly 75 days. But we made it through. We made it through. We, we’ve got this Super Bowl coming up for filming the week before or recording the week before the Super Bowl.

00;05;13;29 – 00;05;33;27
RYAN
The Super Bowl has become almost marketing Olympics, right? You you talk about all of these high level productions and now it’s not just the commercials for the Super Bowl. It is the, the campaigns and the rollouts that go along with these commercials. You’re not just doing a commercial that people will watch once or maybe twice on YouTube.

00;05;33;29 – 00;05;55;25
RYAN
You have to have the whole campaign that goes with the whole social campaign, the PR campaign, the PR push. Have you guys seen anything out and about the week before?

JEN
Like this year feels, I don’t know, like it is the marketing Olympics. Like I love the Super Bowl. I love I love watching the commercials for the Super Bowl and eating the food when the commercials aren’t on.

00;05;55;25 – 00;06;25;12
JEN
That’s my idea of watching the Super Bowl, but maybe it’ll all be a surprise for me this year, because I just have not had time to tune in to any of the pre-marketing stuff. And but also like for somebody who’s been in marketing for so long, that’s way newer of a phenomenon than it used to be. It used to be you didn’t know or see anything until the Super Bowl, until the commercial played, and then maybe you’d see that commercial 1 or 2 more times after, and then it just kind of went into the ether, right?

00;06;25;12 – 00;06;51;15
JEN
Like those campaigns did what maybe the campaign would live on. But they, they spent all this money producing these, you know, amazing, amazing pieces. And I love the creative that went into all of it. But it it always seemed like a waste to me in a way too.

ANNIE
That’s interesting how that has evolved because, you know, on the one hand, you could think that it’s kind of spoiled because they’re releasing things so early.

00;06;51;15 – 00;07;14;16
ANNIE
But now I’ve seen and we’ll talk about there’s so many other supplemental things that I see people doing that make it a larger campaign that extends before and after the Super Bowl. And some of that stuff is really interesting. For example, one of my favorite things that I’ve been reading about and the story just kind of kept adding because I didn’t know how this story started.

00;07;14;16 – 00;07;36;15
ANNIE
But one of our coworkers shared the “Case of the Mondays” commercial from Coors, which has been prereleased. So I think a version of it, maybe a shorter version, will air during the Super Bowl, and it features a bunch of animated sloths on presumably the Monday after the Super Bowl, which I think has been universally agreed on as the worst Monday ever.

00;07;36;17 – 00;07;59;20
ANNIE
And they’re all going in slow motion. They’re going to the grocery store at work, just kind of falling asleep at their desks and it’s really cute and funny. But then when I looked into it further, I realized that the entire campaign around the case of the Mondays started back in January, when they accidentally had a typo and some of their big ads that launched in Times Square.

00;07;59;20 – 00;08;25;20
ANNIE
And so something that was supposed to say refreshments was spelled refershments. And I think a lot of people let them know that very quickly that they had a very major typo in, their large ad.

JEN
That is a better typo than wicked.com, though, when they when Mattel released the Barbies with the wrong pornographic URL

ANNIE
Correct.

JEN
So I would rather have refershments.

ANNIE
A little more forgivable.

00;08;25;21 – 00;08;52;20
ANNIE
Yes. So anyway, I guess that they just leaned into that and, you know, in response they were like Mondays, am I right? And so it all kind of spiraled from there, and they decided to lean into that mistake and release this literal case of the Mondays, which is a case of beer. And yeah, I did not know that it had an origin deeper than where we’re at now with the campaign.

00;08;52;20 – 00;09;14;04
RYAN
I might be a cynic. I think it was planned, because…

ANNIE
I had that thought

RYAN
There’s no way that a typo like that, the of the headline would get by. All of the people at Coors, all the people at their advertising agency, all of those people. And it generated so much buzz, so much press, not even just in our industry.

00;09;14;04 – 00;09;32;02
RYAN
Like this was on NPR, like they were talking about it, on on the news. So I think that that is something that these brands are almost playing with. It’s like, what can we what can we say that will look like a mistake? But isn’t so bad that we

JEN
And humanize us a little..like, oh, we make errors too.

00;09;32;02 – 00;09;56;05
JEN
But that’s that’s interesting, I hadn’t really thought about that. And you’re probably right.

ANNIE
Yeah. And like times Square. Right. So yeah, I, I definitely had that thought and think that you are probably on to something there.

RYAN
It will be curious what – they’ll probably roll out a, a case study on this in three years when they say, oh yeah, I remember when that was actually all planned and canned.

00;09;56;07 – 00;10;23;02
RYAN
Do you guys remember the closing episode of the 2000 hit TV show The Hills?

JEN
Absolutely not.

ANNIE
No.

RYAN
Well, at the end of that, it was a reality show following Laguna Beach. That basically a spin off of Laguna Beach. And at the very end, the last episode, it was reality, but at the very end they showed that they were on a production studio and all of the like, walls came down.

00;10;23;04 – 00;10;41;21
RYAN
They showed all the cameras, they shot all the production.

ANNIE
Oh, yes. Okay, this is ringing some bells. I was, aware, not invested, I would say.

RYAN
Correct. You know what?

JEN
Unaware, not invested.

RYAN
Look for that in the show notes. Well, we’ll put that in there because great, great throw back. Great throw back. So the Super Bowl is happening.

00;10;41;21 – 00;11;03;04
RYAN
But the Grammys already happened. And another buzzworthy piece I would say these are some of the best Grammys that we’ve had in in a few years.

ANNIE
I agree.

RYAN
I learned that they actually brought in 3000 additional voting members of the Grammys specifically for this year’s, this year’s show and everyone said the Grammys finally got it right.

00;11;03;07 – 00;11;23;28
RYAN
I don’t know if that helped it. But Beyoncé finally won.

ANNIE
Well, and The Weeknd ended his boycott of it because of the changes that they made. So that was his surprise performanc, was him coming back because he basically boycotted it until they made those changes. So I’d say moving in the right direction I suppose.

RYAN
Right, right.

00;11;24;00 – 00;11;48;23
RYAN
But there was, great, great musical acts, obviously, but kind of in the same line as some of our commercials that we were talking about for the Super Bowl. We had a Mastercard commercial that is that is unique and something kind of new. We have a a launch of a new Lady Gaga song called Abracadabra.

JEN
But it’s not the song Abracadabra of like the late 80s, right?

00;11;48;23 – 00;12;12;22
ANNIE
Also a bop, to be honest

RYAN
I think I’ve never heard it.

JEN
Oh my god.

RYAN
But I think that. So she debuted a song, and it was basically it looked like a commercial break. It was in the middle position, like a commercial. But then at the very end, a little tie end came up, right, for Mastercard. And it made you realize that it was a Mastercard commercial or sponsor.

00;12;12;22 – 00;12;34;24
ANNIE
It kind of confusing. I don’t think anybody, at least my experience viewing it. I didn’t realize in the moment, oh, this is an ad, because it was literally a world premiere of a music video and a new song, and I think everybody was just so engrossed in that. And it’s Lady Gaga and she’s back and like new album happening and it’s very exciting.

00;12;35;01 – 00;13;03;14
ANNIE
And then at the end, the Mastercard logo and I, I laughed out loud because I was like, what? And then I tried to start making the connection of like, oh, did they sponsor this and helped purchase this entire ad break so this music video could debut? Wait a second. That’s kind of cool. Yeah, and it was just funny seeing some of the reactions online too, because I think people had similar reactions of just like, wait a second, what?

00;13;03;14 – 00;13;20;07
ANNIE
But also here for it.

JEN
So you think that people were like, okay, I’m here for it with Mastercard, who is the sponsor? Or because I, I read some of the reactions that you shared that, you know, sort of like Amex is in shambles kind of thing. Do you think like this didn’t backfire on Mastercard?

ANNIE
I don’t think so.

00;13;20;07 – 00;13;44;08
ANNIE
I think it was maybe a little confusion as to the – wait that an ad? But the larger message is that they are kind of investing in the passions of artists and creators and things like that. And the tagline, I guess for this campaign is when the stage belongs to all of us. Priceless. Bringing in that priceless tagline that they’ve used for a long time.

00;13;44;08 – 00;14;02;29
ANNIE
But I think part of this, too, is they’re going to have a fan version and you can submit, you know, the music video amazingly choreographed, and you can submit your own once everybody on the internet is going to learn the dance by heart, I’m sure.

JEN
We have that scheduled for later on today in the Ideas. Dance lessons.

00;14;02;29 – 00;14;23;22
RYAN
Love it all for it.

ANNIE
But once people learn it, they can submit clips of themselves. And so I think they’re going to make a new cut of the music video with people involved. And so the whole messaging was just about, you know, bringing fans into the experience. And I think where Mastercard comes into that is they’re going to help, you know, sponsor a trip to the concert or something like that.

00;14;23;22 – 00;14;43;29
ANNIE
And so I really don’t think I think people were a little like, wait, what’s going on? Maybe like curious confusion, but I don’t think it backfired right now. I didn’t see anything negative at least.

JEN
Do you think it was a little risky on their part, because it is the kind of thing that sometimes just the mood of the general public can turn on you on one little thing.

00;14;44;06 – 00;15;12;16
ANNIE
Yeah, I, I could see that for sure. Maybe it’s maybe they picked the right partnership to just because of her having such a strong and passionate fan base too. And I don’t know, I just feel like her messages have always been very genuine and very connected to fans. And so I feel like what could appear as maybe a sell out situation, I don’t know, I don’t think it was perceived that way for some reason.

00;15;12;18 – 00;15;37;20
RYAN
And with Mastercard, they’ve for a long time, they give exclusive early access to like concert tickets and things like that. I remember ten years ago when my family wanted to go to the Monster’s Ball, Lady Gaga’s, one of her first concerts. Everyone’s like, who has a Mastercard? We need to, like, get early access to these tickets in order to get them.

00;15;37;20 – 00;15;57;12
RYAN
And my uncle was like, oh yeah, I do. And then our whole family ended up going like extended family, cousins, uncles, aunts. It was it was wild, very fun. But this is kind of a callback to that era of Lady Gaga. And with Bad Romance, that was one of those dances very similar, like single Ladies by Beyonce, that a lot of people learned the Bad Romance dance.

00;15;57;12 – 00;16;17;19
RYAN
And this new song, Abracadabra kind of gives nods back to that era of Lady Gaga. So I think that’s why they’re doing the, the dance contest. You could submit your own video using hashtag Mastercard Gaga contest. Look for mine, lady.

ANNIE
So we’re doing, de Novo’s doing that?

JEN
It’s at like – a little shoutout to Severence. It’s a music dance experience.

00;16;17;24 – 00;16;37;10
ANNIE
Ooh, enjoy all songs equally.

RYAN
It was exciting to see. I loved that she got the time to show like the full video, like it wasn’t just like a small 30 second clip. It like it was the whole thing, which was which was exciting and got so many more people talking about it, watching it, and then streaming it the next day on, on Spotify.

00;16;37;10 – 00;17;06;08
RYAN
I broke some records with that one, which was exciting to see too.

JEN
And that’s just so interesting. I mean, the way advertising has changed and in some ways stayed the same, right? Like, advertising has always tried to be immersive, but here’s where they’re trying to span multiple, ways of attracting that attention. I mean, typically, I like I’m not one to really watch the Grammys or any of the other awards show, but like, wouldn’t that have been more of a performance at the event?

00;17;06;08 – 00;17;40;02
JEN
Not something inserted inserted into the middle of it? Much less maybe sponsored by by a major corporation like that, but then that whole user generated side of things where it’s like you have people, you know, mimicking the dance, learning the dance, putting that out there and sharing it. I mean, I mean, it’s all so much more tied together than it used to be, because now we have so many more ways to get to people and to let them participate with the brand than we ever did before.

00;17;40;04 – 00;17;58;17
RYAN
Well, let’s get into our topic today. We’re talking about all things video. We’ve got quite a few different areas. And as we mentioned at the beginning, video has changed a lot over the course of de Novo’s lifetime. But even when commercials first started, there’s a lot of change. Now everyone can be a videographer with the technology that they have in their pocket.

00;17;58;23 – 00;18;18;00
RYAN
Right. So how do you set yourself apart as a company? How do you lean in on some of those, some of those new tools that are out there and how do you promote it? We’re going to talk about all of that fun stuff today. Ryan, you talk about the way video has changed, even in the course of de Novo’s, you know, 18 year life span here.

00;18;18;02 – 00;18;42;20
JEN
You know, when I was, first in, in some of my first marketing jobs, video was probably the most expensive thing you could do. There was no way to do it yourself. And this is really before digital, like, even standalone digital cameras were really mainstream, right? Like you couldn’t do it yourself. You couldn’t do it well, even if you couldn’t potentially do it

00;18;42;22 – 00;19;06;18
JEN
yourself, even at the advent of some of the first kind of smartphones that came out, like there was just no way. So it was super expensive. And it was something you rarely got to do. So then, you know, the advent of the internet and, just sort of more the widespread sharing of it, even that took a while to really catch on.

00;19;06;18 – 00;19;23;23
JEN
And I remember working with a video partner kind of early on, and, you know, they delivered this to us on a CD, or a DVD, I guess. And, you know, you had to have the right equipment to play it like we were supposed to be. This was for one of our clients who could send it out. And I thought, how inconvenient.

00;19;23;23 – 00;19;49;18
JEN
And I really almost that video as a profession might die out back then, because there just wasn’t a way to easily get that out, or for a lot of companies to be able to invest in it. And then the internet changed. It got faster, phones got smarter, cameras got better. People started investing more time in it, and it was still pretty expensive and still can be pretty expensive to do it right for some budgets.


00;19;49;18 – 00;20;28;13
JEN
But it just became more accessible. And that really is when social media started to utilize video and that started changing it from massive production to faster production and varying levels of quality, like widely varying levels of quality. And, and that’s the really interesting thing. It used to just drive me crazy. If I spent a huge chunk of my marketing budget on video production, I couldn’t afford to use that video in a commercial because I chewed up most of my budget.

00;20;28;13 – 00;20;50;06
JEN
So it was like we’d see the video three times and then it would just go into the ether, right? And it felt wasteful.

RYAN
And then I think a big part of that is, like you were saying, you used all of your marketing budget to create the video, and the only place at the time to show a video was paying a lot of money for a commercial.

JEN
Or sending people literal VHS tapes or CD-ROMs. Right?

00;20;50;14 – 00;21;19;02
RYAN
That is that is insane. And you mentioned social media, but YouTube, right? YouTube is a huge behemoth that is, I think, still the second largest search engine. And that really revolutionized video in another way. It gave a longer life span to all of these video pieces and all this content that people were creating. It wasn’t just a matter of if you had something taped on a VHS, you could watch it over and over again and keep going back to that YouTube video forever.

00;21;19;04 – 00;21;49;03
JEN
Yeah. I mean, I think that’s what made video accessible again to people. And it’s always been a powerful medium. But I would say that sometimes there’s still waste in that, like videos get produced and, and like, we’re not sometimes people don’t think about them as, how do you keep using this from a business perspective? Certainly not like a, you know, I’m making videos in my kitchen of, you know, me dancing and playing with the cats kind of thing.

00;21;49;03 – 00;22;12;01
JEN
I mean, it’s it’s far more accessible. And we have so many more ways to use that content now than we used to.

RYAN
Video still has to have marketing strategy behind it, right? When we work with our clients to plan their strategy. Video is sometimes usually a larger part of that. So these clients are investing in capturing brand storytelling videos or capturing a how to video.

00;22;12;09 – 00;22;28;18
RYAN
And one of the things from a planning and strategy side of this where we’re planning for optimizing our time, right? We know we want to be there. We want to get as much footage as possible when you’re there for hours and you have to optimize a 2 to 3 minute video with the message, there’s some things that you can’t see.

00;22;28;25 – 00;23;01;27
RYAN
But in in our attention economy, you have to keep putting content out there. So how can you kind of optimize that content and get get the most use out of it?

ANNIE
Yeah, I think – so, something that just on a personal level and I think that this has translated to kind of to the way that I’m thinking about our video work too, has been this idea of creation, not consumption, kind of shifting that mindset in terms of focusing on what you have and not unnecessarily expending resources.

00;23;01;29 – 00;23;31;29
ANNIE
So, like you were saying, when we have a full day shoot, we capture hours of footage, maybe two minutes of that will make the cut. But then you think about how much other amazing stuff is left that might never see the light of day because it’s just sitting on the server. So I’ve been thinking a lot about encouraging people to have regular footage or content audits, like have your creative team really go through that footage and learn it and know what’s their pull.

00;23;31;29 – 00;24;00;20
ANNIE
Transcripts have a catalog of what you have to work with, because then you can start being creative with how you can use that other stuff without expending more resources.

JEN
So the idea of cornerstone content is you create one larger piece of content that’s very thematic, right? And that could be video or that could be a, I mean, you could be writing a book, for your business or your organization or your approach on something.

00;24;00;20 – 00;24;22;10
JEN
But whatever that piece is, that cornerstone content, how can you go back and pull pieces out of that? And when you do catalog and know what you have in your content library, then you have the ability to refresh that and keep producing new content, which our clients need more of that content to be able to keep their message out there.

00;24;22;13 – 00;24;41;19
JEN
It keeps it fresh.

ANNIE
Yeah.

JEN
Instead of just recycling the same thing, I want our clients to reuse the videos that we produce for them. I, I hate it when a video gets used for one event or one day. And then they kind of forget about that, like.

RYAN Slapped up on a YouTube channel, never to be seen, never to be seen again.

00;24;41;22 – 00;25;02;21
JEN
And one would argue, I think our clients are really good about reusing that content. But you can also supplement that. You can go back and you can find, you know, great B-roll within footage you have. So there’s this economy of using what you have and not always thinking, I have to go create new.

ANNIE
Yeah, I mean, I think Jav on our team would be very proud.

00;25;02;21 – 00;25;27;24
ANNIE
I like to think of it kind of like digital upcycling or recycling. You said use what you have. And I think that’s a good philosophy in life in general and in video work and in marketing in general. I think audiences being very splintered and having short attention spans. And even if you use a piece of content once, you might not catch everybody that day, that hour, that minute.

00;25;27;27 – 00;25;51;14
ANNIE
So you may have to recycle some stuff and post it again, and that’s okay, I think.

RYAN
Oh, definitely.

JEN
And repetition breeds familiarity, right? Top of mind awareness, that is I mean that’s 101 there for sure.

ANNIE
And then the upcycling piece of it is yeah using what you have going to create that supplementary material with the other stuff that you’ve already paid for.

00;25;51;16 – 00;26;13;04
ANNIE
And it now it’s just sitting on a drive. So I think really digging in with your creative team or your partner and just sparking those creative ideas of like, what else could we do with this? How can we use this clip or that clip or make something completely new in line with what our original mission was and goal of the of that cornerstone piece of content,

00;26;13;04 – 00;26;44;18
ANNIE
But what else can we do here without overextending ourselves.

JEN
And every, I think that resonates with every marketing director out there. They want to squeeze every dollar or every ounce of return on that investment out of that piece that they can. So, you know, using that sort of cornerstone approach and building your library and just always thinking first before I go out and capture new what can I use here?

00;26;44;20 – 00;27;04;22
JEN
You know, how can we reframe this messaging, say the same thing, but in another way, potentially for another audience? That doesn’t mean that, you know, client shouldn’t produce new videos, right? But you should be any any time that you’re producing videos for your organization, you should be thinking, how am I building upon what’s been done before?

00;27;04;24 – 00;27;45;08
JEN
How am I, using information to build awareness with my audience? And, you know, whether you’re nurturing them through sales funnel or introducing them to the organization for the first time, like you said, use what you have. That is one way to really leverage your marketing budget. And go further with it.

ANNIE
I think it’s a conversation, too, that, yeah, with clients that I would be interested in having more of because I know and Andrew can probably attest to this do and Jav, you know, there might be certain shots or certain nuggets of interviews or things like that that we’re like, oh my gosh, that was so amazing.

00;27;45;08 – 00;28;11;06
ANNIE
But it just doesn’t fit with the goal of that larger piece. And it just there’s not a specific place for it there, but it’s always in the back of our minds because we’ve had to go through everything and catalog everything. And so more of those conversations where it’s like, this is a really amazing shot that we captured, or this is a really poignant thing that somebody said in an interview, and just collaborating more on like, okay, how can we give this more legs?

00;28;11;08 – 00;28;35;23
RYAN
Right.

JEN
Well, let me play devil’s advocate here for a second because there are different levels of production that happen. You know, sometimes we get footage that’s provided to us. Sometimes that’s professional footage, sometimes it is literally something off somebody’s camera. And we’re going to blend that with, you know, maybe cinematic level footage that we capture.

00;28;35;26 – 00;29;03;15
JEN
How do you blend that? And should you blend it?

ANNIE
Yeah. I mean, that doesn’t always work, but we’re always I think generally we say, like, the more the merrier. If they have stuff they can provide us, no matter what format that’s in, we will take a look at it. And you don’t know what kind of creative ideas might come out of that, of having to mix things together, of having different formats and qualities to work with.

00;29;03;17 – 00;29;27;00
ANNIE
I think that allows our team to kind of dig in and make some creative decisions as well. So I don’t think it always works necessarily, but we’re always open to it and always open to trying.

JEN
And yeah, I’ve seen this group take some footage that’s been provided to us and even like we embed it so it looks like it’s on a phone screen on the screen, which indicates this is phone footage.

00;29;27;00 – 00;29;46;17
JEN
Not necessarily, you know, the footage that we would take professionally, but sometimes there’s a place for that, right? Yeah. But also depending on what platform form you’re using or what medium you’re using, there are a lot of different levels of production, and not everything takes the cinematic approach. Like how do you decide that?

ANNIE
Yeah, it’s kind of funny.

00;29;46;17 – 00;30;08;13
ANNIE
We’ve actually been on a little journey this year as a video team, trying to kind of figure out and answer those questions, especially as it relates to working within the realm of an agency and having to kind of bridge that gap with account managers and billable hours and, and quotes on projects and how many hours things will take, things like that.

00;30;08;15 – 00;30;33;07
ANNIE
It’s a little difficult sometimes in the video world and being an in-house video team to kind of quantify that. And so it actually has been an adjustment for our team this year. It kind of took us a while to wrap our heads around this, that especially in this new landscape as things are evolving, listen as video producers, I think I can speak for my whole team.

00;30;33;09 – 00;31;14;14
ANNIE
We want to make beautiful, awesome, amazing cinematic stuff all the time. If we could make a movie every day, we would. But that’s just not the world that we live in. And so we have had a lot of conversations and have had to kind of evolve our thinking in these varying levels of production, and that that’s okay, and that sometimes we need something that even we shoot on a phone, or sometime we need to use things that were provided footage from someone else shooting it on a phone and, and just utilize those things to the best of our ability for the goal and the purpose of whatever we need.

00;31;14;17 – 00;31;38;05
ANNIE
So we actually came up with – we spent some time really digging into this and thinking of what are the different levels of production and the needs that we often come across. All the projects that we do don’t fit perfectly into certain boxes, but they are kind of along the spectrum of we’ve developed a kind of a common language for it, and it’s the three C’s so casual, conventional and cinematic.

00;31;38;07 – 00;32;04;06
JEN
Three Cs I like that.

ANNIE
Yes. And so it just allows our teams to communicate better of, hey, I really don’t need this to be a big production. I just might need some social videos or posts to go up quickly, and it’s okay that they’re taken on a phone. It can be from a first person perspective. We don’t have to bring all the bells and whistles, because that’s what our client needs to be posting in that social space.

00;32;04;11 – 00;32;31;13
ANNIE
And so that’s kind of the casual bucket. Do we need everybody on set that day? Do we need to bring all the equipment, that those sort of questions are answered in this little cheat sheet that we made, which we’ll provide in the show notes.

RYAN
There you go out.

ANNIE
And it’s just been kind of interesting. That middle bucket is conventional, where maybe it’s an interview or two or maybe we have some talent, but it’s internal to the company.

00;32;31;13 – 00;32;53;18
ANNIE
We didn’t have to hire out. Or maybe it’s something a little more involved, but not full scale production. Bring everything that we have. And then the final thing is the cinematic, which we have been doing a little more of those recently, and we are our team really loves to do this type of storytelling stuff, and that’s like all hands on deck, all equipment required.

00;32;53;18 – 00;33;17;14
ANNIE
We might even need to rent something or bring in some freelancers and have a larger team. But just being able to kind of group those things and talk about it in a common language has been really helpful, I think across teams where like the video team is more in that traditional production world where not everything always translates to agency world.

00;33;17;16 – 00;33;40;26
ANNIE
And so it’s just allow the account managers when trying to price projects correctly and estimate hours and, do billing and things like that, have that bridge between their team and ours to understand, like what’s needed and what’s appropriate for this.

JEN
It felt like a big shift just to be able to have that, those ways to talk about it.

00;33;40;26 – 00;34;08;13
JEN
But it also helped. I think our team really frame like what level of production is appropriate for what, it really put a framework to that, and it has, I think it’s really helped our content strategies.

ANNIE
Yeah

JEN
Really, really grow. And we’re able to produce more within budgets that way. But then still, there are just there are times when that cinematic production is absolutely the way to go.

00;34;08;13 – 00;34;25;16
JEN
It’s like you don’t want to leave anything to chance. You don’t want this to, you want it to accurately represent your brand and who you are and what you’re trying to convey. And then that’s I mean, that is absolutely worth the investment when you do that. But not everything takes that level of investment. And that took some adjustment.

00;34;25;21 – 00;34;46;29
ANNIE
Yeah. Agreed. And it’s just been interesting to watch the thought process evolve and that there’s a time and a place for all of it. Right? And people likely want and need a mix of all of those things in their timelines or what they’re searching for online or YouTube or whatever. We’ve just had to. Yeah, adapt essentially.

JEN
Well it comes back to goals.

00;34;46;29 – 00;35;17;04
JEN
What are you trying to accomplish? And, you know, how can you Tetris all of that into available resource so that the work gets done and it performs and it meets the goals like that’s the end result that we want for anybody we work with.

ANNIE
And it’s just kind of funny to like, I feel having been in the industry for ten, you know, having to learn how to edit a TikTok video on my phone, that was a big learning curve for me as an editor of 15 years.

00;35;17;04 – 00;35;37;24
ANNIE
Like doing it in phone in the moment, kind of on the fly. That’s a new skill to learn. And it was it was one that I was like, oh, okay, I don’t know what I’m doing here. It’s kind of interesting, but I think it’s just important overall that we stay on top of that stuff and and stay flexible as things evolve.

00;35;37;24 – 00;35;55;10
JEN
As long as we don’t start any of these videos with hi guys, because then..

ANNIE
No, we will not be doing that.

RYAN
So you mentioned filming up on your phone for TikTok. How do you determine if a video should be horizontal or vertical or like do you film for both? Like how do you determine that when you’re when you’re going in for a shoot.

00;35;55;17 – 00;36;21;02
ANNIE
Yeah. So that has come up quite a bit recently to all the different sizes and things for different platforms and all of that. And I think at this point, most of the time we are just kind of assuming that it needs to be both. So unless explicitly we only need one format or another, generally we’re thinking that things might have to be adapted into different formats.

00;36;21;05 – 00;36;41;24
ANNIE
And so for us, the easiest solution for that has been to just shoot a lot of stuff in 4K. I know not everyone might have the capability to do that. It takes a lot of space. The files are very large. If you don’t have the proper computer to edit those types of files with, that can take a ton of unnecessary time.

00;36;41;26 – 00;37;01;22
ANNIE
But we have a good process in place here that has allowed us to generally approach things with being able to shoot in 4K, and then we have much more flexibility with being able to resize those things for different formats.

JEN
So basically when you’re resizing it for different formats, it’s because you have the like to just put it in common speak.

00;37;01;22 – 00;37;22;19
JEN
You have the resolution to do that.

ANNIE
Right.

JEN
You can shoot from a little further away, you can capture a wider scene, but you can still get what you need in the center of the frame if you have to go vertical without sacrificing quality.

ANNIE
Yeah, it’s just a higher resolution file, and so it gives you a lot more flexibility to be able to crop in or make it different sizes like vertical if you need that.

00;37;22;22 – 00;37;41;27
ANNIE
And just gives you a lot more to work with.

RYAN
And you you mentioned cropping it in, I think that that is something that the account managers and, and people have heard videographers say, right. It’s like, oh, we can we can crop in and you just assume that that is a possibility. But if you don’t talk with your video team, if you don’t have a plan, they might not be shooting in 4K.

00;37;41;27 – 00;38;06;05
RYAN
So so you can’t crop it in. You have to have these discussions and kind of have a plan ish for the footage before you are shooting. Just because you can’t always crop in unless you’re shooting in 4K.

JEN
Well, you can, but your quality will really suffer, right?

ANNIE
Exactly.

JEN
In the end, you still want something, even if it’s more, casual approach and is supposed to feel a little bit more authentic.

00;38;06;05 – 00;38;36;05
JEN
You don’t want it to look fuzzy or blurry or pixelated, because you had to crop in.


ANNIE
Yeah. And the other thing that we’ve utilized, too, is if you have the people and you have the time, we’ve also had different team members shooting in different ways at the same time and kind of overlapping some of that. So we’ve had someone on a horizontal camera, we’ve had someone on a vertical set up, we’ve had someone also on a phone at the same time getting different types of footage for different needs.

00;38;36;05 – 00;38;56;25
ANNIE
And so then you’re covering a lot of ground at once. Make sure that you build in the time for that into your production schedule, because we have learned that that that can eat up a lot of time on shoot days. But it’s just another approach to it. If you do have, you know, the the people and the ability to have multiple cameras going at once.

RYAN
What about length?

00;38;56;25 – 00;39;18;17
RYAN
Is there like a sweet spot that you’re going for when it comes to length of a video?

ANNIE
A lot of the times that can be dictated to us by digital strategy, where the placements are going to be. For those longer, you know, brand videos or storytelling things, we typically try to say around 2 or 3 minutes. But it really just kind of depends.

00;39;18;21 – 00;39;43;27
ANNIE
But I will say, when we’ve been doing more of this documentary style work, in my personal opinion, sometimes I think that the stories just need to take the time that they take to be told well. And at least that’s how I kind of approach it when we’re putting something like that together, even if we say, oh, the goal is five minutes, ten minutes.

00;39;43;29 – 00;40;14;26
ANNIE
You know, we had that happen with the project and it ended up being 17. And you know what? I think that’s okay because I think there – again, time and a place for all of that stuff, I still think that there needs to be things that require people’s attention for a longer than 2.5 seconds. And just getting so involved in those stories and being able to tell them well, I think they deserve the respect of being as long as they need to be.

00;40;14;26 – 00;40;43;23
JEN
Well, I’m going to I’m just going to brag on your planning, here for a minute. So Annie when we are approaching a video project, regardless of length, building out that story arc is really important, right? But also the pre-planning that goes into it. So Annie creates a production schedule that boggles my mind. But at the same time, I can completely understand it and understand what’s going to happen, over the course of those shoots because of it.

00;40;43;25 – 00;41;03;19
JEN
So we’re always capturing a lot of footage, but there is still intent that goes into that when you’re building, let’s say, more of a storytelling video. When I was younger, a brand video would take ten, would be like a ten minute thing, probably because you’re paying for it anyway. So yeah, we just felt like we should do it wasn’t necessarily the best approach.

00;41;03;19 – 00;41;26;19
JEN
Now, a brand video really does fall in that maybe 2 to 3 minute max, but a storytelling video is really something different. Yeah, I agree with you. It takes what it takes to get the story right, and

ANNIE
And I think it deserves that time and space, you know, and I think especially if you’re investing this much in that type of thing, I don’t want to take shortcuts on that type of stuff.

00;41;26;23 – 00;41;49;16
ANNIE
So yeah, hopefully, people will tune in and stay in if it’s ten minutes, 17 minutes long, you know, but I think I think that kind of stuff is still very necessary even in the world that we live in.

JEN
I think there’s there are great places for that. And it can be surprising to people that their attention is captured and held for that amount of time.

00;41;49;16 – 00;42;09;20
JEN
But if that does come back to your planning for that story before you begin, there may be surprises that happen along the way. And, you know, like Andrew says, keep those cameras rolling. You never know what you’re going to get. But I think that’s the magic in in what we do plan, but be flexible.

ANNIE
Yeah, exactly. I like that.

00;42;09;20 – 00;42;29;25
RYAN
Annie, do you have any tips that people can use when it comes to creating like their own videos?

ANNIE
Yeah. I mean, I think just starting is a huge part of it. I think again, taking it back to your brand or your company’s larger goals, what do you what messages do you want to communicate and how is the best way to do that?

00;42;29;25 – 00;42;52;15
ANNIE
If you do have to do this stuff in-house on your own, sometimes some people are responsible for that by themselves, for a company, and that’s a lot to manage. Definitely get a plan together, try to stay organized. But also, like we said earlier, be flexible, be able to adapt and be in the moment. Get your own people involved.

00;42;52;17 – 00;43;21;19
ANNIE
Maybe take the load off of you a little bit. I’ve seen a lot of things kind of trending this year about not user generated content, but employee generated content. And we’re kind of starting a fun project this year where we’re doing that. And just allowing our employees to be responsible for some of the content that we’re producing throughout the year and not only take some of the load off of what you have to do and allows them to, to get in on it, but it just adds a level of authenticity to things.

00;43;21;19 – 00;43;46;17
ANNIE
I think that’s what people are craving more and more. I think that that’s an easy way to make something that doesn’t have to be super high production value, but still involves your people and your culture, and allows that stuff to be in the forefront, in a relatively low stakes way. So I think that’s a good idea. And just be, yeah, be flexible and just start.

00;43;46;19 – 00;44;04;22
JEN
I just want to say that authenticity and grit can be great, and there is a time and place for it, but there’s still just always going to be a need to focus on quality and make sure that the strategies are in place and that the quality is going to convey what you want it to about your brand.

ANNIE
Yeah, for sure.

00;44;04;22 – 00;44;25;03
ANNIE
Remember that quality scale. It’s it’s not all black and white. I think things can exist along that spectrum in a lot of different ways. One thing that I will say is black and white though. If you are doing this on your own, please be mindful of audio and lighting, audio especially. Don’t try to film something with your phone with like your thumb on the speaker.

00;44;25;08 – 00;44;43;15
ANNIE
You know, it’s just yeah, there are things we could do that can help with increasing that quality. Even if you are a team of one and having to do that on your own. So audio and lighting a a big one for sure.

JEN
Good tips, good tips.

RYAN
So we covered a lot in a short amount of time. What are what are some of your takeaways or how do you summarize all of that.

00;44;43;15 – 00;45;06;05
ANNIE
Yeah, I think it’s been hard to kind of talk about this because it’s just always changing. And I think it always will. It will continue to evolve, we’ll continue to have to adapt and be flexible. Like we’ve talked about. But I don’t think video is going away by any means. It is such an important and ingrained part of our everyday lives.

00;45;06;05 – 00;45;27;26
ANNIE
So if I had to boil it down, I think a big part of it is what we talked about with utilizing what you have, making sure you’re getting the most out of what you’re investing in, consider your quality levels, understand that that stuff can exist on a spectrum, and that there’s a time and a place for all different types of video.

00;45;27;29 – 00;45;48;19
ANNIE
And at the end of the day, I think personally, I just love this medium so much. I love being able to tell stories. I love everything about it. And I think it’s worth the investment in the long run, to have this be part of your larger strategy that helps tell your brand story.

RYAN
Well said, very well said.

00;45;48;22 – 00;46;13;07
RYAN
Now it’s time for creative briefs. In this segment, we dive deeper into a marketing campaign or concept. We think through their strategy, their creative and talk about what makes it great or not so great. For today’s creative brief, we have Cheetos “Other Hand Font”.

JEN
And I’m going to say great, great right out of the start here.

ANNIE
Agreed.

JEN
it’s pretty, pretty freaking funny.

00;46;13;12 – 00;46;38;28
RYAN
And in this mockumentary style video, the video outlines the process of creating a new feature and like speaking about all the intricacies and aspects that that went into building that font. It’s about like a two minute long video, and halfway through, the designer holds up his right hand to reveal what what people call Cheeto fingers and say how the full team who was working on this font had to use their other hand.

00;46;39;01 – 00;46;57;02
RYAN
They then reveal the font, which which looks like somebody wrote it with their other hand. Kind of like they’re trying to, like, disguise their handwriting around Secret Santa or something like that. They show the font on stop signs, tote bags in a variety of other things. But the best part of this, I think, in my opinion, is they made the font available for everyone.

00;46;57;02 – 00;47;16;13
RYAN
They want people to download it, they want people to use it. They even made a Chrome extension where you can turn it so that everything in your browser is in other hand font, and it’s like a comically squiggly font.

ANNIE
That’s awesome.

RYAN
And at the end it says 99% of people eat Cheetos with their dominant hands. Even font designers.

00;47;16;15 – 00;47;34;22
RYAN
Guilty, guilty. I also do that.

JEN
Relatable.

RYAN
What did you guys think? What did you guys think of Cheetos other hand font?

JEN
Well, I loved first of all before the font, like I just love that they come at it. Everybody’s wearing like black and it’s a very, like white and clean like almost like apple -esq setting for it.

00;47;34;22 – 00;47;59;11
JEN
And it appears very serious. But you catch on pretty quickly it’s not. And you don’t quite get the Cheeto dust fingers until about halfway through, and then you’re just like, oh my God, that’s freaking brilliant. And I love the tie in. You know, when we were talking about how advertising has changed, how we make things usable by the end consumer beyond the actual Cheetos themselves.

00;47;59;11 – 00;48;20;10
JEN
Right. Like, you can download this font, you can you can turn it all. You’re going to do it for five minutes before you lose your mind on Chrome. Right? But you’re going to do it.

RYAN
They even said, install it on your coworkers or your friends computers in Chrome to give them a, a fun experience, which is a really good April Fool’s Day prank.

00;48;20;12 – 00;48;42;19
JEN
It is good. I also really like all the real life examples, including the stop sign. That’s, you know, looks like a drunk kindergartner wrote it or something like that. Carpe Diem tattoo, the tattoo across the chest will be my next one.

JEN
But, yeah, we’ll get those together.

ANNIE
Sounds good. After our Lady Gaga TikTok dance. Yeah.

00;48;42;21 – 00;49;08;13
ANNIE
No, I thought it was hilarious. And I think it’s funny because, you know, having Cheeto fingers is something that is a universal experience. Everybody can relate to that. But it also could be a deterrent for people, for the product. Like, you know, it’s not necessarily a positive experience to have.

JEN
Right, you might not want to eat Cheetos before you go into a meeting where you have to shake hands with people, right.

00;49;08;13 – 00;49;29;11
ANNIE
And so just turning that on its head and really leaning into something that might be seen as a downside to the product and just going all in on that, I thought was a brilliant move.

JEN
Yeah. And you know, we’ve deep in the bowels of our blog somewhere is a blog we wrote about using emotion to make something memorable.

00;49;29;13 – 00;49;49;28
JEN
And the different emotions that you can evoke and humor, is is probably one of the more popular ones. But in a day and age where outrage is also one of them that gets used frequently. I, I’m all here for Cheetos sense of humor and, I mean, I love ch- I have a cat named Cheeto, so clearly I’m a fan.

00;49;50;04 – 00;50;16;09
ANNIE
Super fan.

JEN
Yeah. Super fan, but I think it was a brilliant piece of work. And I love how they make it very accessible and easy for other people to engage with it. And even though, you know, this is not something that’s going to last forever in a marketing world, it’ll be memorable for a long time for the people that do see it and the people who are sort of the superfans of Cheetos, are definitely going to produce some content with it.

00;50;16;11 – 00;50;51;15
ANNIE
I like the campaign as an idea overall, but even the execution of the video is just so great to, like you said, it’s very serious and tone. The musical cues make you feel like you’re supposed to be watching this groundbreaking, innovative thing, and then it’s this poorly hand-drawn, childlike font. But even the details throughout are so funny. I told you guys watch it a couple times because there’s something new I notice every single time where, like you said, you don’t get the reveal of the Cheeto hand until about halfway through.

00;50;51;15 – 00;51;19;26
ANNIE
But if you look at every single clip prior to that, they’re strategically hiding their other hand so you don’t see it. It’s just so out of frame or out of focus. You can kind of see it in the background, someone holding up their Cheeto hand, but they don’t necessarily call it out right away.

JEN
And then that awkward high five where they’re trying to high-five with their non-dominant hands, which I think white people in particular are already challenged enough trying to make, high five happen, spontaneously.

00;51;19;26 – 00;51;52;02
JEN
That was just perfect.

ANNIE
Sure.

RYAN
So Annie this was a fun and kind of a, the tone was very serious, but it was a fun video. What? Which one of the C’s does this video fall into on our quality scale of our three C’s?

ANNIE
Ooh, I think this would be a cinematic one for us. Plenty of planning. The actors really needed to deliver their on the the little subtle humor cuz, honestly, they probably needed, special art department to style those Cheeto fingers specifically for every shot.

00;51;52;02 – 00;52;14;14
ANNIE
So I’m thinking this was an all hands on deck type of production.

RYAN
And reading the YouTube, description of this video put out by Cheeto, they actually say what Cheeto dust is called. Does anyone know the official trademarked name for Cheeto dust?

(Background)
Chust.

00;52;14;16 – 00;52;45;26
JEN
It’s not Chust, it’s not chust.

ANNIE
Javier has put trust into the ring. I’m going to guess maybe that’s not correct, but.

JEN
That’s. That’s disgusting. Sure. Yes. If you.

RYAN
And if that gets picked up. Yeah. It’s just it’s just like much if that gets picked up in the bag or that’s even better. It is called Cheadle c h e e t l e.

JEN
like Don Cheadle?

00;52;45;26 – 00;53;15;22
RYAN
Kind of. Yes, yes. Said like Don Cheadle spelled differently. Right. Cheadle. That is the the name. So, the the corn chip is coated in Cheadle.

JEN
No, I think it’s chust

ANNIE
I choose chust.

JEN
I chose chust. I honestly don’t know how to recover from this at this point in time. But I do have to thank the rest of this team for introducing me to the Cheeto font and then, also the term chust which will never leave me.

00;53;15;24 – 00;53;37;03
JEN
I just want to follow up on a previous story. And I thought about this earlier when we were talking plan, but be flexible. You talked about that. Ryan. How is your New Year’s resolution to do a hand stand and to be able to do pull ups?

RYAN
The pull ups are not going well, I will say I have not forgotten this.

00;53;37;03 – 00;53;59;23
RYAN
This was a serious, serious resolution. I am doing a peloton course about core strength because I learned that, one of the biggest things for a handstand is not your arm strength. It is your core strength. In order to, keep your body up and elevated. So doing a lot of core strength, a lot of bird dogs, a lot of, planks.

00;53;59;26 – 00;54;18;23
JEN
So I think, is it handstand or headstand?

RYAN
Handstand, Handstand. So the arm strength is still very important. And that will probably be what I struggle with most. I’m just avoiding it because I do not want to do push ups, and I do not want to lift weights, so I’m just doing core stuff.

JEN
Have you done a dry run on the handstand?

00;54;18;25 – 00;54;37;00
RYAN
I have not, I have not, not yet. I’m still too afraid. It’ll basically just be a somersault. I think at this point because there’s not much strength there, but.

JEN
All right, stay tuned. We’ll have another update on that next month. Before we go, I want to thank Annie for joining us. I know you were a little nervous going into this.

00;54;37;00 – 00;54;58;11
JEN
How you feel now?

ANNIE
I’m okay. It is definitely a different experience. And it has reaffirmed why I choose to not be on this side of the camera or the microphone that often, but I enjoyed the discussion very much. Thank you for bearing with me. And we’ll see if 80% of what I said mysteriously gets lost on the cutting room floor.

00;54;58;14 – 00;55;08;12
JEN
I’m so glad you were here. Thanks for everything. And thanks again to my obnoxious co-host, Ryan.

RYAN
Thanks everyone.

ANNIE
Thank you guys.

00;55;08;14 – 00;55;30;22
JEN
Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Thing Fresh.

RYAN
And remember, the conversation does not have to end here. If you liked what you heard today, be sure to follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram. Review our show on whatever you listen to your podcast on, or share all your marketing trials and triumphs by shooting us an email at info@thinkdenovo.com with the subject line dear de novo so we don’t miss it.

00;55;30;25 – 00;55;50;23
JEN
And while you wait eagerly for our next episode, you can get your fix by checking out our blog Fresh Thinking at blog.thinkdenovo.com Stay tuned for more engaging conversations, laughs, and of course, marketing brilliance and be making fun of Ryan in the next episodes to come.

RYAN
Here’s to fresh thinking, sparking creativity, and never being boring.

00;55;50;25 – 00;55;56;19
RYAN
Bye friends!

JEN
Are we swearing on this or no?