Full Transcript of Think Fresh - Episode 2
00;00;00;00 – 00;00;20;15
RYAN
We’re doing this. All right. Hello and welcome to the world of talking. my God. All right, we’ll try this again. Ryan, are you settled? Okay.
00;00;20;17 – 00;00;41;05
JEN
Hello and welcome to Think Fresh, a podcast brought to you by Novo Marketing’s Collective Creative. Coming to you from our Ideas Institute and here to talk about all things marketing. Insights on new trends, innovative ideas, and marketing tools you can use in your day-to-day life… and whatever else we deem relevant. I’m Jen Neumann, de Novo CEO and your host.
00;00;41;08 – 00;01;09;24
RYAN
And I’m Ryan Shenefelt, Account Manager, Innovation & Education Lead, and resident Nosy Eavesdropper always looking to push the envelope.
JEN
He is indeed very, very nosy.
RYAN
Today we’re talking all things websites.
RYAN
Well, Jen, even before we get into the docket for today, we recorded our first podcast.
JEN
We did. We got it done. It was absolutely terrifying. And when our producer sent the first draft over, I was so scared to listen to it.
00;01;09;24 – 00;01;27;02
JEN
But it actually it was great. I’m really happy with it.
RYAN
I subscribed to the podcast myself, which feels kind of weird. But on Saturday I was doing some chores and when one of my other podcasts ended, all of a sudden I started hearing myself talking and it kind of weirded me out briefly. But then I got used to it.
00;01;27;03 – 00;01;46;21
JEN
How many times did you make Jacob listen to it?
RYAN
Zero zero. He actually doesn’t even know about it yet. I don’t think. However, because he’s not on social media, so he doesn’t see me sharing it all over the place. But I have had a few clients reach out and a few friends and even a student reach out saying that they listened and that it was great.
00;01;46;21 – 00;02;08;12
RYAN
So that definitely makes me feel more confident about this.
JEN
Yeah. And that students going to get a slightly higher grade, is that what you’re saying?
RYAN
Of course. Of course. Shout out Tiffany, Shout out Tiffany.
JEN
All right, all right. Let’s get let’s get down to websites. And this is a… this is a tricky topic sometimes.
RYAN
Yeah. So with websites, I think that they’ve evolved so much over the past 30 years.
00;02;08;12 – 00;02;33;10
RYAN
It used to be only governments, large corporations, they can have the websites. Then as website builder tools came out, it made it a little bit easier for other companies to join the fray. Now, websites aren’t a pure badge of legitimacy. There are plenty of… bad websites out there. Not just bad in the sense that they look bad, but scammers, spammers, all of that.
00;02;33;10 – 00;02;58;01
RYAN
They have the ability to create a website and look legitimate because the average person assumes, “Oh, if it’s a website, it’s real.” And I just get worried about that because we’ve had clients that have had their pictures used on other websites. My mom has purchased.. or my mom’s coworker has purchased, like, fake things off of websites where she, she Googled and saw something that was $5 cheaper on this scam website.
00;02;58;01 – 00;03;32;20
RYAN
She put her credit card in and never got the product. So…
JEN
I may have been guilty of that too.
RYAN
Yeah. Yeah, it happens. It happens. But let’s let’s not talk about those websites. Let’s talk about good websites, websites that serve the purpose of your business.
JEN
Right. And websites are they’re a major part of what we do here. And it’s interesting to me when I start a conversation with somebody who’s looking for a website, build what they know, what they don’t know, what they… what they think they know, and some of the misperceptions and myths that are out there around website building.
00;03;32;23 – 00;03;59;25
JEN
And we’re going to focus strictly on business case websites today, not necessarily on lifestyle websites and things like that. We’re talking about everyday businesses or organizations and communities. So it’s really important that you have a professional face, facing forward, right? Your website is usually your first point of contact with a customer or a constituent, whatever it might be.
00;03;59;25 – 00;04;22;28
JEN
So it has to be good. It has to be good, but it also has to be a lot of other things. It has to be accessible. It has to be safe for them to enter their information, and it has to drive your goals, whatever that is. So we’re going to break down some of that and we’re going to start with the most uncomfortable one for most people, which is “What does it actually cost?”
00;04;23;01 – 00;04;43;01
RYAN
Right? And even before we have many conversations with our clients and with other people, they will ask, what does the website cost? So again, what does a website actually cost?
JEN
I’m going to cop out here to be honest, because if I say a low number and a high number, what anybody hears is the low number.
00;04;43;03 – 00;05;05;10
RYAN
Of course.
JEN
So it can vary. But I think that the misperception that a website is like eight or $10,000 is just it’s kind of still out there. And really to completely build a site out, to make it secure, to make it accessible, to make it meet your business goals, it’s way more of an investment than that. So that’s probably the first thing I get.
00;05;05;10 – 00;05;30;08
JEN
And where, you know, when I’m on a call with somebody, I see a deer in the headlights look. But the fact of the matter is, is it takes time and resources to do it right. But it will absolutely pay off for you if you do it right and you build it, build it correctly from the foundation up.
RYAN
And what you were saying, your website is one of the first things that people see. If they are doing Google searches, if you email them, they might go to your website to just check you out.
00;05;30;10 – 00;05;54;21
RYAN
So you want to make sure that it does come off legitimate, come off professional, but still be who you are. In a nutshell, your website, your website should reflect who your business is.
JEN
Right, most businesses at one point in time had walk-in traffic. Now we have stalk-in traffic. Right? They’re going to look you up before they even come to your store or call your business or make an appointment or buy from you.
00;05;54;23 – 00;06;13;07
JEN
It’s a completely different approach, now. They know more about you before they step foot through your door or call you than they ever would have before.
RYAN
I have never heard the term stalking traffic and that might be my new favorite thing.
JEN
Well, apparently you didn’t read my blog like, ten years ago.
RYAN
Dang it.
JEN
That’s where it, that’s where it came from.
00;06;13;09 – 00;06;33;22
JEN
All right. So, I mean, there’s a lot of there are a lot of things that go into building a site and a lot of the reasons that it’s not just a $10,000 project or even less, it’s just a very so it’s it’s important that you get that out of the way first and that businesses are budgeting for this tool.
00;06;33;24 – 00;06;53;17
RYAN
Right. When it comes to things that might change the cost of a website. Let’s talk through some of those factors a little bit. The first one being: platform. Do you want it to be built on a content management system where you can easily go in and make changes yourself? Do you want it to be purely HTML coded? All of those things depend on the platform as well, can, can adjust your price
00;06;53;23 – 00;07;35;09
JEN
Yeah. And not a lot of companies are doing things on a strict HTML coding basis anymore. Really. Companies are either going to have the developers on staff for something like that and it’s going to be more of a custom-coded CMS or proprietary or they’re going to want to use a CMS platform and they may need some advanced coding at times, but they want to be able to make updates, you know, whether they’re building it internally or whether somebody else is building the site. Your everyday user of the site… back end user of the site is not going to be that well-versed in coding.
00;07;35;09 – 00;07;56;01
JEN
So it does typically for most businesses need to be something that the client can mostly maintain on their own.
RYAN
Yeah, and something that we hear a lot. And another factor is, is the content, both the written and the photos. Clients will say, I want the website to be a little bit cheaper. I’ll write the content myself.
JEN
Oh my God,
RYAN
we pull it from our existing website. Right?
00;07;56;06 – 00;08;16;04
JEN
Okay, so this is the part that kind of pisses me off sometimes because content is the number one holdup in a website. When we have a lot of people say we can just use the content from our site, or I’ll write the content or our team will write the content and we’ll send it to you. And we do have some that are very good at that.
00;08;16;04 – 00;08;49;20
JEN
They’re staffed appropriately or they have the right experience. But website writing is not the same as regular business writing. It’s different. It needs to be optimized and you need to think about that content on every page. It is the thing that slows down almost every website. So, it’s something that we’ve incorporated now into our own structure because we have copywriters on our team, but also because a lot of times our clients have, you know, a time frame that they need this built out in.
00;08;49;23 – 00;09;13;05
JEN
And I could, if I had a dollar for every time somebody said, “We’ll give you the content” and we didn’t get it on time. Yeah, it’s, it’s crazy. But, it is the biggest holdup, and it needs to be done right. Why invest in a full fledged website if your content isn’t built for that site and built to meet your goals?
00;09;13;07 – 00;09;38;13
RYAN
Right. And so if you are if you are building your website on your own, fine. But… plan accordingly for how long it takes to write the content. Researching the content, writing it well, then going back through and optimizing it. It takes longer than you think it will and I just want to make sure that everybody who’s listening to this plans accordingly. Plan accordingly and then multiply that by 1.5, because that’s how long it will probably actually take you.
JEN
At least.
00;09;38;16 – 00;09;56;11
RYAN
And then just talking a little bit about functionality, what are some things that you want your website to do? Do you want it to have an online chat feature in there? Do you want it to have a CRM built into your contact form? Do you need an API that goes into your ERP or e-commerce? Do you want to sell things on your website?
00;09;56;13 – 00;10;19;02
RYAN
All of those things are factors that we use when we are pricing the website. They add a little bit of complexity, sometimes a lot, a bit of complexity, but they all need to be planned for ahead of time.
JEN
Well sometimes there’s complications, right? A lot of times when we’re talking to somebody in the beginning stages, they might not even know of some of the integrations that are built on.
00;10;19;04 – 00;10;37;06
JEN
Maybe they’re a new CMO and they inherited a website and they don’t even know what was all built into it. A lot of times we can see that just from the source code and see what we need to do, but we have had that happen where we get into that kickoff meeting and we find out from an IT person who’s in the meeting that there is an integration that we didn’t know about.
00;10;37;08 – 00;10;57;15
JEN
So, you know, that’s just an adjustment at that point in time. But it’s really best to take inventory of what your site currently does and inventory of what you want your site to do so that we can build that out appropriately. It’s always starting with the end in sight.
RYAN
Yeah. Yeah. And and not even just thinking of it in a silo.
00;10;57;15 – 00;11;18;01
RYAN
Bring in all of your stakeholders in your company and talk to them about what they want the website to do. A website can’t do everything… um sometimes. Sometimes you can try. But, making sure you have everybody’s wants and needs out on the table and then determine priorities. That’s a way to kind of get to that end a little bit more efficiently.
00;11;18;04 – 00;11;38;27
JEN
A shift I’ve seen is… IT used to be in charge of websites, which drove me crazy because why would you.. would you ask IT to design a brochure for your company, right? No, you wouldn’t. But IT does typically need to be involved if they have access to your domain or you know, how your site might currently be hosted.
00;11;38;27 – 00;12;08;08
JEN
So I encourage people to talk to kind of all the stakeholders within their company that may have some role in how that website operates so that you’re not surprised by something later.
RYAN
Right. Another thing to keep in mind with the price of your website or the cost of your website, the monthly traffic that you’re getting. So hopefully you do have Google Analytics or some other form of analytics installed on your site so that you can see that monthly traffic.
00;12;08;08 – 00;12;29;01
RYAN
That comes into play when we talk about hosting. Hosting is not the same price for a website that gets ten visits a month versus a website that gets 200,000 visits a month. A website has to be scaled up effectively for things like that. And it doesn’t necessarily always change the look of your website, but the feel of your website, how fast it’s operating.
00;12;29;03 – 00;12;54;16
RYAN
More traffic means you need you need a more powerful website host.
JEN
I think we should talk about timing too, because that’s something that I think people just aren’t even sure of when they reach out to us. They want to know how long it’ll take. So, you know, a basic site could take as little as four months and a much more complex site could take up to a year, even more in some cases, depending on the complexity of the site.
00;12;54;18 – 00;13;15;29
JEN
So it’s really important to think about that. And that all rolls into what a website will cost you to have it professionally built as well. So it’s just something to keep in mind. Sure, you can throw up a cheap DIY website in a matter of a week if you want, but will it be strategically thought through from beginning to end?
00;13;15;29 – 00;13;37;03
JEN
Will it have the layers of security that you need? Will it be ADA accessible? Which we’re going to touch on here in a moment, and why that’s important. Having a strategic partner that can think this through for you and has the experience to build it out technically correct while having your marketing and revenue goals in mind, that’s key.
00;13;37;05 – 00;13;55;22
RYAN
Yeah. If it’s just one person putting information into a preexisting template, you’re only thinking…
JEN
How do I fill in the blanks? Right?
RYAN
Right. And you’re trying to fill in the blanks. You’re not creating it. You’ve got a hole and you’re trying to fill it. So remember, you’re not your target market. That’s something that we tell our clients.
00;13;55;22 – 00;14;19;25
RYAN
We have to remember that ourselves sometimes, but that’s part of our process of working with the clients, reminding them, pushing back sometimes, and just reminding them “Hey, you’re not your target market. This website is to help serve your business goals, but the website is not just for you.” Keep your target market in mind when creating that. So long story short Jen, when it comes to how much a website costs…
JEN
I don’t know.
00;14;19;27 – 00;14;41;20
JEN
You got to give me the details. You’ve got to give me the details. We’ve got to know everything. So just don’t come into the conversation thinking that it’s, you know, ranging from a couple hundred bucks to a couple thousand. It all depends on your business’ needs. So think of it as an investment and something that’s going to return value to you if it’s done right.
00;14;41;27 – 00;15;09;27
RYAN
Yeah.
JEN
So a new emerging trend that has been happening over the past, I’d say 2 to 4 years is ADA accessibility, which is not a trend in and of itself. But when it comes to websites, what’s happening is, we live in a litigious society and businesses are getting what we call demand letters saying “your site is not fully accessible to me, I am suing you.”
00;15;09;27 – 00;15;43;22
JEN
And there have been some settlements, notable settlements from some bigger companies like Target, Harvard, some big ones. Right. But it’s happening to smaller companies and communities, too. So ensuring that a site is built to reasonably accommodate the user is really important. So, you have to take it back to your own company’s values or community’s values like how do you make your business or your community accessible in the first place?
00;15;44;00 – 00;16;11;02
JEN
What are your values around that? And that really should inform how you build your website and then that should be built to standards. And I’m going to give that a caveat because standards are one thing, but how the government is sharing this information, they’ve really just posted guidelines and it’s more of a you’re reporting or tattling on websites rather than they’re going out and saying, “Hey, you have deficiencies in your website, you need to correct them.”
00;16;11;02 – 00;16;35;15
JEN
So that’s what’s leading to, I think, some scare tactics that are happening and that leads to reactive solutions, right? Like buying a program that kind of lays over your site and according to those programs makes it accessible, which is sort of…
RYAN
It’s not always the case.
JEN
Yeah it’s not always the case and can actually cause problems for your site.
00;16;35;15 – 00;16;59;01
JEN
So starting at the point at which you’re building your site, making sure that it’s being built to those standards is super important, but also making sure that you’re making reasonable accommodations for people and there’s a way that they can reach out to you.
RYAN
Yeah, and we know what accessibility means in a physical sense. That’s things like ramps going up to a building, automatic door functionality, etc., but not necessarily in a digital sense, right?
00;16;59;01 – 00;17;20;03
RYAN
It means something different. For a website that means making sure you have alt tags, making sure that screen readers can function on your website, really ensuring that everybody can access your website in an equitable way. That’s what ADA means in a nutshell. And accessibility means in a nutshell, for your website.
JEN
It can get more complicated than that too, right?
00;17;20;03 – 00;17;44;01
JEN
Like, part of it is screen readers and maybe being able to increase the size of the text or having an appropriate contrast ratio between colors, right? But it can also mean captions on your videos and making sure that anybody with any level of ability to consume that information can… that you’ve made reasonable accommodations for them.
RYAN
Yes.
00;17;44;04 – 00;18;06;15
JEN
That is key. And disabilities come in a lot of different shapes and sizes. And how people access that information is subjective. And there are even some tools out there or some methods that you might use that actually decrease accessibility. So it’s kind of a gray area and you have to tread that carefully. But the important thing is, is that you’re doing it, right.
00;18;06;15 – 00;18;27;28
JEN
You’re making every attempt you can to be accessible. You’re not doing things that make it actually more difficult sometimes for people to access that and that you’re displaying that information. You’re saying we make every reasonable accommodation and if you have encountered difficulty on our site, here is how you reach out to us to see if we can correct it for you.
00;18;28;04 – 00;18;53;23
JEN
That is really key. That shows intent.
RYAN
Right. And that’s your accessibility statement and your…
Your form on that. You know, and a good place for that is down by your privacy policy, which that’s a whole other topic that we’re not going to cover today. But these are things that you need to do to not only build the site for the end user in mind so that everybody can reach it, but also to keep yourself out of danger.
00;18;53;29 – 00;19;14;06
JEN
Right? Right. So treat accessibility like you would your own storefront or your own building or for your own employees. You have to treat your website the same way.
RYAN
Right. And accessibility is the right thing to do. However, Google, we always have to keep in mind. Google actually has a tool to measure or grade your accessibility on your website.
00;19;14;09 – 00;19;40;21
RYAN
Google Lighthouse gives accessibility as a metric and something I always tell clients if Google is grading something, if they’re taking the time to develop an algorithm that grades something, you can almost guarantee that goes into their ranking algorithm. Now, the rankings with SEO, that is a black box, we do not KNOW what goes into it, but if Google develops something, they’re probably using it as a tool for grading and that goes into their algorithm.
00;19;40;22 – 00;19;59;03
JEN
Absolutely. Okay. Ryan can’t help himself and he definitely has the wiggles over here. So Ryan, go ahead and give ‘em one takeaway. If you’re going to do one thing to work on the accessibility of your website, what is it?
RYAN
Yes. If you have a CMS and you can go in and make updates to your site, you might struggle with layout.
00;19;59;03 – 00;20;19;18
RYAN
And a lot of times clients and people, they will do something in Photoshop if they can’t do it in text or with code on their website that’s swallowing up all of the ADA value that you would put into that. Screen readers cannot read text in graphics. Remove text from graphics, make sure that you can highlight that text and copy and paste it.
00;20;19;20 – 00;20;51;20
RYAN
If you can copy and paste text, that means that a screen reader can read it and make sure that everybody can access that. So, no text in graphics or if it is, make sure that you have it in other places on your website, too.
JEN
All right, Prof. Ry just gave you homework everybody, so do it.
RYAN
So yeah, when you think about it, your website’s your first interaction with the customer, they’re using the website as a way to stalk, like Jen said earlier, your business. That one interaction might be the make-or-break moment and, you won’t get the chance to convince them otherwise.
00;20;51;24 – 00;21;13;27
JEN
Right. If they’ve already made the decision based on your website versus a competitor’s website and they choose your competitor and they make that purchase or decision, well you’re already out of the equation. So you have to give yourself the best chance you can moving forward. And that’s the crux of all this.
00;21;14;00 – 00;21;42;22
JEN
All right. Power of three segment, right.
So we sent Ryan and the digital team to Denver last week to spend some time at the Agency Management Institute Digital Summit. It’s basically the data nerds from a bunch of agencies across the United States. Give me your top three things you learned.
RYAN
Yes. If I had to summarize those two days into just three points and like Jen said, it was a bunch of different marketing professionals specifically in that digital space.
00;21;42;22 – 00;22;06;10
RYAN
So, this group of people think roughly 45 people from 20 different agencies all throughout the United States, they came together and it was eye-opening that a lot of us share… not concerns, but we all took similar things away from it. The first one is cookies and compliance. Google is changing the way that information can be tracked on your websites a lot.
00;22;06;12 – 00;22;24;07
RYAN
So Apple, many of you might already see that when you install a new app, Apple makes you opt-in to cookie usage and things along those lines. So it’s already been done with Apple. Now every single website is going to be doing the same thing and Google is going to require you to track cookies in a different way.
00;22;24;09 – 00;22;40;25
RYAN
So this means that we have to adjust how we’re targeting people. It’s not the end of the world. It really just is an adjustment to how tracking is done. You’re not just going to be putting a a little cookie on someone’s computer. You’re going to be getting some more information from them in a more transparent way.
00;22;40;27 – 00;22;57;02
RYAN
So cookie policy, that’s number one.
JEN
Well, and Google said they were going to roll this out and now they’ve really slow-played that. So it has given digital marketers a chance to kind of get their feet under them and understand how it’s changing. But I just have to echo what you said. This isn’t actually the end of the world.
00;22;57;02 – 00;23;35;11
JEN
This is actually better targeting.
RYAN
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s more authentic to your customer for sure.
JEN
All right. What’s next? What’s this tool that you’re talking about next? I This one was new to me.
RYAN
Yes. Yes. Askyourtargetmarket.com. This is a tool that marketers can use to have focus groups, to vet questions, to vet designs, even. Askyour targetmarket.com is something that anybody from a consumer standpoint can sign up for to be somebody’s target market, and it allows businesses and marketers to go in and say I am looking for a 35-year-old mom from the Midwest and I want 30 of those people.
00;23;35;14 – 00;23;57;24
RYAN
They then allow you to ask those people questions and those people on the other end, they’re saying, “Hey, I am X, I want to answer questions for money.” So kind of a survey tool, but it really empowers the marketer to be able to get in front of those people in a more efficient way.
JEN
So how many of those studies have you personally signed up for to participate in?
00;23;57;26 – 00;24;17;13
RYAN
UnknownI… not yet. I will be honest. I have not on the other end of things, signed up for these things yet, but it’s a new tool
RYAN
We’re doing this. All right. Hello and welcome to the world of talking. my God. All right, we’ll try this again. Ryan, are you settled? Okay.
00;00;20;17 – 00;00;41;05
JEN
Hello and welcome to Think Fresh, a podcast brought to you by Novo Marketing’s Collective Creative. Coming to you from our Ideas Institute and here to talk about all things marketing. Insights on new trends, innovative ideas, and marketing tools you can use in your day-to-day life… and whatever else we deem relevant. I’m Jen Neumann, de Novo CEO and your host.
00;00;41;08 – 00;01;09;24
RYAN
And I’m Ryan Shenefelt, Account Manager, Innovation & Education Lead, and resident Nosy Eavesdropper always looking to push the envelope.
JEN
He is indeed very, very nosy.
RYAN
Today we’re talking all things websites.
RYAN
Well, Jen, even before we get into the docket for today, we recorded our first podcast.
JEN
We did. We got it done. It was absolutely terrifying. And when our producer sent the first draft over, I was so scared to listen to it.
00;01;09;24 – 00;01;27;02
JEN
But it actually it was great. I’m really happy with it.
RYAN
I subscribed to the podcast myself, which feels kind of weird. But on Saturday I was doing some chores and when one of my other podcasts ended, all of a sudden I started hearing myself talking and it kind of weirded me out briefly. But then I got used to it.
00;01;27;03 – 00;01;46;21
JEN
How many times did you make Jacob listen to it?
RYAN
Zero zero. He actually doesn’t even know about it yet. I don’t think. However, because he’s not on social media, so he doesn’t see me sharing it all over the place. But I have had a few clients reach out and a few friends and even a student reach out saying that they listened and that it was great.
00;01;46;21 – 00;02;08;12
RYAN
So that definitely makes me feel more confident about this.
JEN
Yeah. And that students going to get a slightly higher grade, is that what you’re saying?
RYAN
Of course. Of course. Shout out Tiffany, Shout out Tiffany.
JEN
All right, all right. Let’s get let’s get down to websites. And this is a… this is a tricky topic sometimes.
RYAN
Yeah. So with websites, I think that they’ve evolved so much over the past 30 years.
00;02;08;12 – 00;02;33;10
RYAN
It used to be only governments, large corporations, they can have the websites. Then as website builder tools came out, it made it a little bit easier for other companies to join the fray. Now, websites aren’t a pure badge of legitimacy. There are plenty of… bad websites out there. Not just bad in the sense that they look bad, but scammers, spammers, all of that.
00;02;33;10 – 00;02;58;01
RYAN
They have the ability to create a website and look legitimate because the average person assumes, “Oh, if it’s a website, it’s real.” And I just get worried about that because we’ve had clients that have had their pictures used on other websites. My mom has purchased.. or my mom’s coworker has purchased, like, fake things off of websites where she, she Googled and saw something that was $5 cheaper on this scam website.
00;02;58;01 – 00;03;32;20
RYAN
She put her credit card in and never got the product. So…
JEN
I may have been guilty of that too.
RYAN
Yeah. Yeah, it happens. It happens. But let’s let’s not talk about those websites. Let’s talk about good websites, websites that serve the purpose of your business.
JEN
Right. And websites are they’re a major part of what we do here. And it’s interesting to me when I start a conversation with somebody who’s looking for a website, build what they know, what they don’t know, what they… what they think they know, and some of the misperceptions and myths that are out there around website building.
00;03;32;23 – 00;03;59;25
JEN
And we’re going to focus strictly on business case websites today, not necessarily on lifestyle websites and things like that. We’re talking about everyday businesses or organizations and communities. So it’s really important that you have a professional face, facing forward, right? Your website is usually your first point of contact with a customer or a constituent, whatever it might be.
00;03;59;25 – 00;04;22;28
JEN
So it has to be good. It has to be good, but it also has to be a lot of other things. It has to be accessible. It has to be safe for them to enter their information, and it has to drive your goals, whatever that is. So we’re going to break down some of that and we’re going to start with the most uncomfortable one for most people, which is “What does it actually cost?”
00;04;23;01 – 00;04;43;01
RYAN
Right? And even before we have many conversations with our clients and with other people, they will ask, what does the website cost? So again, what does a website actually cost?
JEN
I’m going to cop out here to be honest, because if I say a low number and a high number, what anybody hears is the low number.
00;04;43;03 – 00;05;05;10
RYAN
Of course.
JEN
So it can vary. But I think that the misperception that a website is like eight or $10,000 is just it’s kind of still out there. And really to completely build a site out, to make it secure, to make it accessible, to make it meet your business goals, it’s way more of an investment than that. So that’s probably the first thing I get.
00;05;05;10 – 00;05;30;08
JEN
And where, you know, when I’m on a call with somebody, I see a deer in the headlights look. But the fact of the matter is, is it takes time and resources to do it right. But it will absolutely pay off for you if you do it right and you build it, build it correctly from the foundation up.
RYAN
And what you were saying, your website is one of the first things that people see. If they are doing Google searches, if you email them, they might go to your website to just check you out.
00;05;30;10 – 00;05;54;21
RYAN
So you want to make sure that it does come off legitimate, come off professional, but still be who you are. In a nutshell, your website, your website should reflect who your business is.
JEN
Right, most businesses at one point in time had walk-in traffic. Now we have stalk-in traffic. Right? They’re going to look you up before they even come to your store or call your business or make an appointment or buy from you.
00;05;54;23 – 00;06;13;07
JEN
It’s a completely different approach, now. They know more about you before they step foot through your door or call you than they ever would have before.
RYAN
I have never heard the term stalking traffic and that might be my new favorite thing.
JEN
Well, apparently you didn’t read my blog like, ten years ago.
RYAN
Dang it.
JEN
That’s where it, that’s where it came from.
00;06;13;09 – 00;06;33;22
JEN
All right. So, I mean, there’s a lot of there are a lot of things that go into building a site and a lot of the reasons that it’s not just a $10,000 project or even less, it’s just a very so it’s it’s important that you get that out of the way first and that businesses are budgeting for this tool.
00;06;33;24 – 00;06;53;17
RYAN
Right. When it comes to things that might change the cost of a website. Let’s talk through some of those factors a little bit. The first one being: platform. Do you want it to be built on a content management system where you can easily go in and make changes yourself? Do you want it to be purely HTML coded? All of those things depend on the platform as well, can, can adjust your price
00;06;53;23 – 00;07;35;09
JEN
Yeah. And not a lot of companies are doing things on a strict HTML coding basis anymore. Really. Companies are either going to have the developers on staff for something like that and it’s going to be more of a custom-coded CMS or proprietary or they’re going to want to use a CMS platform and they may need some advanced coding at times, but they want to be able to make updates, you know, whether they’re building it internally or whether somebody else is building the site. Your everyday user of the site… back end user of the site is not going to be that well-versed in coding.
00;07;35;09 – 00;07;56;01
JEN
So it does typically for most businesses need to be something that the client can mostly maintain on their own.
RYAN
Yeah, and something that we hear a lot. And another factor is, is the content, both the written and the photos. Clients will say, I want the website to be a little bit cheaper. I’ll write the content myself.
JEN
Oh my God,
RYAN
we pull it from our existing website. Right?
00;07;56;06 – 00;08;16;04
JEN
Okay, so this is the part that kind of pisses me off sometimes because content is the number one holdup in a website. When we have a lot of people say we can just use the content from our site, or I’ll write the content or our team will write the content and we’ll send it to you. And we do have some that are very good at that.
00;08;16;04 – 00;08;49;20
JEN
They’re staffed appropriately or they have the right experience. But website writing is not the same as regular business writing. It’s different. It needs to be optimized and you need to think about that content on every page. It is the thing that slows down almost every website. So, it’s something that we’ve incorporated now into our own structure because we have copywriters on our team, but also because a lot of times our clients have, you know, a time frame that they need this built out in.
00;08;49;23 – 00;09;13;05
JEN
And I could, if I had a dollar for every time somebody said, “We’ll give you the content” and we didn’t get it on time. Yeah, it’s, it’s crazy. But, it is the biggest holdup, and it needs to be done right. Why invest in a full fledged website if your content isn’t built for that site and built to meet your goals?
00;09;13;07 – 00;09;38;13
RYAN
Right. And so if you are if you are building your website on your own, fine. But… plan accordingly for how long it takes to write the content. Researching the content, writing it well, then going back through and optimizing it. It takes longer than you think it will and I just want to make sure that everybody who’s listening to this plans accordingly. Plan accordingly and then multiply that by 1.5, because that’s how long it will probably actually take you.
JEN
At least.
00;09;38;16 – 00;09;56;11
RYAN
And then just talking a little bit about functionality, what are some things that you want your website to do? Do you want it to have an online chat feature in there? Do you want it to have a CRM built into your contact form? Do you need an API that goes into your ERP or e-commerce? Do you want to sell things on your website?
00;09;56;13 – 00;10;19;02
RYAN
All of those things are factors that we use when we are pricing the website. They add a little bit of complexity, sometimes a lot, a bit of complexity, but they all need to be planned for ahead of time.
JEN
Well sometimes there’s complications, right? A lot of times when we’re talking to somebody in the beginning stages, they might not even know of some of the integrations that are built on.
00;10;19;04 – 00;10;37;06
JEN
Maybe they’re a new CMO and they inherited a website and they don’t even know what was all built into it. A lot of times we can see that just from the source code and see what we need to do, but we have had that happen where we get into that kickoff meeting and we find out from an IT person who’s in the meeting that there is an integration that we didn’t know about.
00;10;37;08 – 00;10;57;15
JEN
So, you know, that’s just an adjustment at that point in time. But it’s really best to take inventory of what your site currently does and inventory of what you want your site to do so that we can build that out appropriately. It’s always starting with the end in sight.
RYAN
Yeah. Yeah. And and not even just thinking of it in a silo.
00;10;57;15 – 00;11;18;01
RYAN
Bring in all of your stakeholders in your company and talk to them about what they want the website to do. A website can’t do everything… um sometimes. Sometimes you can try. But, making sure you have everybody’s wants and needs out on the table and then determine priorities. That’s a way to kind of get to that end a little bit more efficiently.
00;11;18;04 – 00;11;38;27
JEN
A shift I’ve seen is… IT used to be in charge of websites, which drove me crazy because why would you.. would you ask IT to design a brochure for your company, right? No, you wouldn’t. But IT does typically need to be involved if they have access to your domain or you know, how your site might currently be hosted.
00;11;38;27 – 00;12;08;08
JEN
So I encourage people to talk to kind of all the stakeholders within their company that may have some role in how that website operates so that you’re not surprised by something later.
RYAN
Right. Another thing to keep in mind with the price of your website or the cost of your website, the monthly traffic that you’re getting. So hopefully you do have Google Analytics or some other form of analytics installed on your site so that you can see that monthly traffic.
00;12;08;08 – 00;12;29;01
RYAN
That comes into play when we talk about hosting. Hosting is not the same price for a website that gets ten visits a month versus a website that gets 200,000 visits a month. A website has to be scaled up effectively for things like that. And it doesn’t necessarily always change the look of your website, but the feel of your website, how fast it’s operating.
00;12;29;03 – 00;12;54;16
RYAN
More traffic means you need you need a more powerful website host.
JEN
I think we should talk about timing too, because that’s something that I think people just aren’t even sure of when they reach out to us. They want to know how long it’ll take. So, you know, a basic site could take as little as four months and a much more complex site could take up to a year, even more in some cases, depending on the complexity of the site.
00;12;54;18 – 00;13;15;29
JEN
So it’s really important to think about that. And that all rolls into what a website will cost you to have it professionally built as well. So it’s just something to keep in mind. Sure, you can throw up a cheap DIY website in a matter of a week if you want, but will it be strategically thought through from beginning to end?
00;13;15;29 – 00;13;37;03
JEN
Will it have the layers of security that you need? Will it be ADA accessible? Which we’re going to touch on here in a moment, and why that’s important. Having a strategic partner that can think this through for you and has the experience to build it out technically correct while having your marketing and revenue goals in mind, that’s key.
00;13;37;05 – 00;13;55;22
RYAN
Yeah. If it’s just one person putting information into a preexisting template, you’re only thinking…
JEN
How do I fill in the blanks? Right?
RYAN
Right. And you’re trying to fill in the blanks. You’re not creating it. You’ve got a hole and you’re trying to fill it. So remember, you’re not your target market. That’s something that we tell our clients.
00;13;55;22 – 00;14;19;25
RYAN
We have to remember that ourselves sometimes, but that’s part of our process of working with the clients, reminding them, pushing back sometimes, and just reminding them “Hey, you’re not your target market. This website is to help serve your business goals, but the website is not just for you.” Keep your target market in mind when creating that. So long story short Jen, when it comes to how much a website costs…
JEN
I don’t know.
00;14;19;27 – 00;14;41;20
JEN
You got to give me the details. You’ve got to give me the details. We’ve got to know everything. So just don’t come into the conversation thinking that it’s, you know, ranging from a couple hundred bucks to a couple thousand. It all depends on your business’ needs. So think of it as an investment and something that’s going to return value to you if it’s done right.
00;14;41;27 – 00;15;09;27
RYAN
Yeah.
JEN
So a new emerging trend that has been happening over the past, I’d say 2 to 4 years is ADA accessibility, which is not a trend in and of itself. But when it comes to websites, what’s happening is, we live in a litigious society and businesses are getting what we call demand letters saying “your site is not fully accessible to me, I am suing you.”
00;15;09;27 – 00;15;43;22
JEN
And there have been some settlements, notable settlements from some bigger companies like Target, Harvard, some big ones. Right. But it’s happening to smaller companies and communities, too. So ensuring that a site is built to reasonably accommodate the user is really important. So, you have to take it back to your own company’s values or community’s values like how do you make your business or your community accessible in the first place?
00;15;44;00 – 00;16;11;02
JEN
What are your values around that? And that really should inform how you build your website and then that should be built to standards. And I’m going to give that a caveat because standards are one thing, but how the government is sharing this information, they’ve really just posted guidelines and it’s more of a you’re reporting or tattling on websites rather than they’re going out and saying, “Hey, you have deficiencies in your website, you need to correct them.”
00;16;11;02 – 00;16;35;15
JEN
So that’s what’s leading to, I think, some scare tactics that are happening and that leads to reactive solutions, right? Like buying a program that kind of lays over your site and according to those programs makes it accessible, which is sort of…
RYAN
It’s not always the case.
JEN
Yeah it’s not always the case and can actually cause problems for your site.
00;16;35;15 – 00;16;59;01
JEN
So starting at the point at which you’re building your site, making sure that it’s being built to those standards is super important, but also making sure that you’re making reasonable accommodations for people and there’s a way that they can reach out to you.
RYAN
Yeah, and we know what accessibility means in a physical sense. That’s things like ramps going up to a building, automatic door functionality, etc., but not necessarily in a digital sense, right?
00;16;59;01 – 00;17;20;03
RYAN
It means something different. For a website that means making sure you have alt tags, making sure that screen readers can function on your website, really ensuring that everybody can access your website in an equitable way. That’s what ADA means in a nutshell. And accessibility means in a nutshell, for your website.
JEN
It can get more complicated than that too, right?
00;17;20;03 – 00;17;44;01
JEN
Like, part of it is screen readers and maybe being able to increase the size of the text or having an appropriate contrast ratio between colors, right? But it can also mean captions on your videos and making sure that anybody with any level of ability to consume that information can… that you’ve made reasonable accommodations for them.
RYAN
Yes.
00;17;44;04 – 00;18;06;15
JEN
That is key. And disabilities come in a lot of different shapes and sizes. And how people access that information is subjective. And there are even some tools out there or some methods that you might use that actually decrease accessibility. So it’s kind of a gray area and you have to tread that carefully. But the important thing is, is that you’re doing it, right.
00;18;06;15 – 00;18;27;28
JEN
You’re making every attempt you can to be accessible. You’re not doing things that make it actually more difficult sometimes for people to access that and that you’re displaying that information. You’re saying we make every reasonable accommodation and if you have encountered difficulty on our site, here is how you reach out to us to see if we can correct it for you.
00;18;28;04 – 00;18;53;23
JEN
That is really key. That shows intent.
RYAN
Right. And that’s your accessibility statement and your…
Your form on that. You know, and a good place for that is down by your privacy policy, which that’s a whole other topic that we’re not going to cover today. But these are things that you need to do to not only build the site for the end user in mind so that everybody can reach it, but also to keep yourself out of danger.
00;18;53;29 – 00;19;14;06
JEN
Right? Right. So treat accessibility like you would your own storefront or your own building or for your own employees. You have to treat your website the same way.
RYAN
Right. And accessibility is the right thing to do. However, Google, we always have to keep in mind. Google actually has a tool to measure or grade your accessibility on your website.
00;19;14;09 – 00;19;40;21
RYAN
Google Lighthouse gives accessibility as a metric and something I always tell clients if Google is grading something, if they’re taking the time to develop an algorithm that grades something, you can almost guarantee that goes into their ranking algorithm. Now, the rankings with SEO, that is a black box, we do not KNOW what goes into it, but if Google develops something, they’re probably using it as a tool for grading and that goes into their algorithm.
00;19;40;22 – 00;19;59;03
JEN
Absolutely. Okay. Ryan can’t help himself and he definitely has the wiggles over here. So Ryan, go ahead and give ‘em one takeaway. If you’re going to do one thing to work on the accessibility of your website, what is it?
RYAN
Yes. If you have a CMS and you can go in and make updates to your site, you might struggle with layout.
00;19;59;03 – 00;20;19;18
RYAN
And a lot of times clients and people, they will do something in Photoshop if they can’t do it in text or with code on their website that’s swallowing up all of the ADA value that you would put into that. Screen readers cannot read text in graphics. Remove text from graphics, make sure that you can highlight that text and copy and paste it.
00;20;19;20 – 00;20;51;20
RYAN
If you can copy and paste text, that means that a screen reader can read it and make sure that everybody can access that. So, no text in graphics or if it is, make sure that you have it in other places on your website, too.
JEN
All right, Prof. Ry just gave you homework everybody, so do it.
RYAN
So yeah, when you think about it, your website’s your first interaction with the customer, they’re using the website as a way to stalk, like Jen said earlier, your business. That one interaction might be the make-or-break moment and, you won’t get the chance to convince them otherwise.
00;20;51;24 – 00;21;13;27
JEN
Right. If they’ve already made the decision based on your website versus a competitor’s website and they choose your competitor and they make that purchase or decision, well you’re already out of the equation. So you have to give yourself the best chance you can moving forward. And that’s the crux of all this.
00;21;14;00 – 00;21;42;22
JEN
All right. Power of three segment, right.
So we sent Ryan and the digital team to Denver last week to spend some time at the Agency Management Institute Digital Summit. It’s basically the data nerds from a bunch of agencies across the United States. Give me your top three things you learned.
RYAN
Yes. If I had to summarize those two days into just three points and like Jen said, it was a bunch of different marketing professionals specifically in that digital space.
00;21;42;22 – 00;22;06;10
RYAN
So, this group of people think roughly 45 people from 20 different agencies all throughout the United States, they came together and it was eye-opening that a lot of us share… not concerns, but we all took similar things away from it. The first one is cookies and compliance. Google is changing the way that information can be tracked on your websites a lot.
00;22;06;12 – 00;22;24;07
RYAN
So Apple, many of you might already see that when you install a new app, Apple makes you opt-in to cookie usage and things along those lines. So it’s already been done with Apple. Now every single website is going to be doing the same thing and Google is going to require you to track cookies in a different way.
00;22;24;09 – 00;22;40;25
RYAN
So this means that we have to adjust how we’re targeting people. It’s not the end of the world. It really just is an adjustment to how tracking is done. You’re not just going to be putting a a little cookie on someone’s computer. You’re going to be getting some more information from them in a more transparent way.
00;22;40;27 – 00;22;57;02
RYAN
So cookie policy, that’s number one.
JEN
Well, and Google said they were going to roll this out and now they’ve really slow-played that. So it has given digital marketers a chance to kind of get their feet under them and understand how it’s changing. But I just have to echo what you said. This isn’t actually the end of the world.
00;22;57;02 – 00;23;35;11
JEN
This is actually better targeting.
RYAN
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s more authentic to your customer for sure.
JEN
All right. What’s next? What’s this tool that you’re talking about next? I This one was new to me.
RYAN
Yes. Yes. Askyourtargetmarket.com. This is a tool that marketers can use to have focus groups, to vet questions, to vet designs, even. Askyour targetmarket.com is something that anybody from a consumer standpoint can sign up for to be somebody’s target market, and it allows businesses and marketers to go in and say I am looking for a 35-year-old mom from the Midwest and I want 30 of those people.
00;23;35;14 – 00;23;57;24
RYAN
They then allow you to ask those people questions and those people on the other end, they’re saying, “Hey, I am X, I want to answer questions for money.” So kind of a survey tool, but it really empowers the marketer to be able to get in front of those people in a more efficient way.
JEN
So how many of those studies have you personally signed up for to participate in?
00;23;57;26 – 00;24;17;13
RYAN
UnknownI… not yet. I will be honest. I have not on the other end of things, signed up for these things yet, but it’s a new tool
