Full Transcript of Think Fresh - Episode 13
00;00;00;00 – 00;00;20;16
RYAN
We’re doing this.
JEN
All right. Hello and welcome to th – were you talking? Oh, my God. All right, we’ll try this again. Ryan, are you settled?
RYAN
I’m Settled.
JEN
Okay.
00;00;20;18 – 00;00;41;06
JEN
Hello, and welcome to Think Fresh, a podcast brought to you by de Novo Marketing’s Collective Creative. Coming to you from our Ideas Institute and here to talk about all things marketing. Insights on new trends, innovative ideas and marketing tools you can use in your day to day life – and whatever else we deem relevant. I’m Jen Neumann, de Novo CEO and your host.
00;00;41;08 – 00;01;04;03
RYAN
And I’m Ryan Shenefelt, account manager, innovation and education lead and resident nosy eavesdropper, always looking to push the envelope.
JEN
He is indeed very, very nosy.
RYAN
Today we’re going to talk about connecting the dots in marketing. Today we’re joined by Ashley Burdt, who’s an account manager here at ae Novo. Ashley started her career as a photojournalist at KWWL, capturing authentic and compelling narratives.
00;01;04;21 – 00;01;30;19
RYAN
She brings those same skills to her de Novo team around planning, managing, holding and nurturing everyone’s attention. She can see the big picture and perfectly connect the dots for her clients. Ashley is also Deneuve’s only Emmy winner.
JEN
Yet.
RYAN
Yet.
ASHLEY
Ooh.
RYAN
Ashley, welcome to Think Fresh!
ASHLEY
Thanks, Ryan. Also known as Ashley Neighbor. In case you don’t recognize my name, I’m still kind of getting used to the whole married life situation.
00;01;30;23 – 00;01;54;11
JEN
I am not used to it yet. And frequently call you Ashley Neighbor. I’m so sorry.
ASHLEY
It’s okay. Legally, I am still… I think I’m still Ashley Neighbor. I haven’t changed it officially.
RYAN
Because you didn’t want to – you’ve had a big year! You got married, you got a new puppy, you went to Amsterdam and you are
JEN
Which is…
ASHLEY
…which is a country or a continent?
00;01;54;13 – 00;02;09;25
RYAN
It is a country. I did initially think it was only a city. What? You’re looking at me, is it not?
ASHLEY
It’s not a country. Amsterdam is not a country. I hate to break it to you.
RYAN
Oh, right. Right right right right right. Who, you. Who knows? Who knows? Who’s to say?
ASHLEY
Who is to say? It’s in the Netherlands, though. If that helps.
00;02;09;25 – 00;02;27;18
RYAN
You know what, team? I’m not going to fact check you. Like I was brutally fact checked by our producer in the last episode. That was potentially one of my favorite moments of of the podcast thus far.
ASHLEY
I’ve got to say, the former journalist in me loves a good fact check fact check me please.
00;02;27;21 – 00;02;50;19
RYAN
Well, actually, I do want to talk a little bit about about your career in journalism. What what drew you to journalism?
ASHLEY
That’s a good question. I, growing up, I always wanted to know why. So you try to tell me to do something and I’d be like, well, why? Obviously my parents loved that a lot. I was even in, ROTC for a small time in college, which people cannot, cannot believe.
00;02;50;21 – 00;03;14;06
ASHLEY
Just like your faces say.
JEN
I did not know that about you.
ASHLEY
It was, it was a trying time. And I quickly learned it was like, hey, you know, Cadet Neighbor, do this. And I was like, why? They hated that so much. You never need to know the why. You just need to do things. And so I started taking classes, obviously, as you do, when you’re in college, I was really drawn to public speaking.
00;03;14;13 – 00;03;37;12
ASHLEY
Believe it or not, I loved the public speaking class so much, I took it twice, just for funsies.
RYAN
You didn’t fail it the first time and you had to repeat it?
ASHLEY
I actually didn’t feel it.
JEN
That’s why I took classes twice in college.
ASHLEY
That might have been why I took statistics twice. Or algebra. I can’t remember which one, but public speaking, I took it twice because, where I went, the University of New Mexico, they had a journalism and communication, degree.
00;03;37;12 – 00;04;00;21
ASHLEY
So they’re both in one. They mean they kind of go hand in hand. Anyways, so I got really drawn into the multimedia journalism and then strategic communication. I did both concentrations because I was so interested in both topics. Ended up landing a job at KWWL, here in eastern Iowa, as a photojournalist, and then ended up working my way up to being a broadcast journalist on air.
00;04;00;21 – 00;04;19;12
ASHLEY
So, yeah, that was that’s a little bit about kind of how I got there, why I was drawn to journalism. But I could, I could go on about that forever.
RYAN
And it does tie into some of the things we’re going to talk about a little bit later in the episode. But today we just had a major, a major event.
00;04;19;12 – 00;04;40;08
RYAN
And I don’t know how major this is to everybody else, but this is a marketing podcast and part of marketing is pop culture. The Met Gala just happened. Did any of you watch or cover the red carpet of the Met Gala?
JEN
Are you serious? I mean, what do you know about me and how much attention I pay to fashion like the New York Times email
00;04;40;10 – 00;05;05;02
JEN
this morning was all about the Met Gala. I just deleted it. Like, I just don’t care.
ASHLEY
I don’t love the idea of the Met Gala. Like, the eco conscious person, like part of me doesn’t love it, but
JEN
Like the consumerism aspect of it?
ASHLEY
The consumerism. And just it feels so dystopian, kind of like watching it.
00;05;05;02 – 00;05;27;29
ASHLEY
But I, as a pop culture consumer, I really can’t help but like watch some of the highlight reels. I always love the, the attendees who kind of like, have a statement to make with their outfits. I like that part. I didn’t really see a ton of that this year.
RYAN
Neither did I. But I thought that the, I don’t know, the theme this year was kind of interesting, and I liked the historical aspect of it.
00;05;27;29 – 00;05;41;23
JEN
And what was the theme this year?
ASHLEY
It was well tailored suits.
JEN
Okay.
RYAN
Super Fine, Tailoring Black Style. The official the official theme.
ASHLEY
Thank you. And there is my first fact check.
00;05;41;26 – 00;06;00;27
RYAN
But I think that the the part, the reason that they bring this up is because it is an opportunity to, to get in front of people, right? Like that is why a lot of these stars and a lot of these people really want to get to the Met Gala. It’s invite only. And once you have, once you’ve been invited, that’s kind of a a badge of honor, if you will.
00;06;00;29 – 00;06;20;09
RYAN
Right? It’s a great opportunity to get in front of a lot of people, a lot of cameras, because the press is covering it. So it’s that opportunity to be in the press for an amazing outfit, really hitting the theme or the opposite, the worst dressed list, which guess what? People talk about you just as much.
ASHLEY
They do say no news is bad news.
00;06;20;16 – 00;06;38;13
RYAN
And from our from our news queen Ashley, look at that. But I think another piece of this is we, we’ve almost jumped the shark. And I know that that is an old term. But like have we gotten so far disconnected from the Met Gala that people don’t even know what it is anymore? Like, are we now missing the point of what the Met Gala is?
00;06;38;13 – 00;07;02;04
ASHLEY
Yes.
JEN
Yeah. I don’t I don’t think it’s as prominent in just people’s top of mind. It’s just not there anymore. I mean, that used to be, there’s just so many things going on in the world, but like, there’s so many big events and so many more, made for celebrity opportunities with social media that things like this are getting lost in the shuffle.
00;07;02;07 – 00;07;26;11
ASHLEY
And it’s the same thing every year, right? It’s a new theme, but it’s the same thing. People go and stand on a red carpet and that’s it.
RYAN
And look beautiful.
ASHLEY
And look gorgeous, which of course is something. But, these days people’s attention spans, like cool, saw it, what’s next? I’m scrolling along.
RYAN
Yes, it’s a small moment in your news feed, but on top of that, the gorgeous outfits and everything,
00;07;26;11 – 00;07;46;15
RYAN
It is the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s Costume Institute. It’s their major fundraiser. And this year, just just a no. No one talks about this piece of it. It was their their highest grossing fundraiser yet. They raised $31 million to keep that money.
JEN
That’s a lot of money for one night.
RYAN
And they raise that to keep the Costume Institute funded for another year.
00;07;46;16 – 00;08;08;00
RYAN
It also goes in line with their their new exhibition each year. So the theme of the Met is then the exhibition for that year’s Costume Institute, which I thought was kind of fun. Next. This is something we introduced last, last episode, but tariffs are still very much, very much the elephant in the room. Uncertainty is abound. Jen, do you have any any any tariff talk for today?
00;08;08;02 – 00;08;30;14
JEN
Oh yeah. You know I do. So actually, this comes from, something Ashley shared with our team. There’s a the Do This, Not That podcast, which is brand new to me. Very good shout out to those guys. It’s it’s really informative and quick, which I always appreciate. Unlike this podcast, which we go to that full hour.
00;08;30;14 – 00;08;53;21
JEN
Right. So, you know, we were just talking about numbers there, but, but here’s some, some big stats, right? Like 91% of people polled are aware of the tariffs. And of those 91%, 94% of people are concerned about them. So 6% of people are like, hey, we’re cool. You know, this is gonna be great for us, but 94% of people are concerned about them.
00;08;53;21 – 00;09;17;24
JEN
And then I hear this out in the business community all the time. And how companies are being impacted by it. So, the interesting thing is, when polled, 43% of decision makers say they’ll remain loyal, but they’re motivated by price. That means that over half of the people are motivated by price and price is outranking loyalty. And that’s a big shift.
00;09;17;26 – 00;09;40;16
JEN
Loyalty has usually trumped price. No pun intended. So, but this is an opportunity, and we should find opportunity anywhere we can in this environment right now. So basically, we cannot wish this away right? This this isn’t going away soon. We hope it goes away at some point. But we are going to have to adjust as business leaders.
00;09;40;16 – 00;10;09;03
JEN
So your calls to actions in emails and social media can reference locking in price or securing a rate. You’re going to use subject lines like rate freeze, price stability, transparency in pricing. Transparency in pricing is a really interesting thing to say too. One of the topics that I do want to dig into in this podcast coming soon, would be like the Edelman’s Trust Barometer and how how much do people trust businesses, right?
00;10;09;03 – 00;10;31;17
JEN
So here’s another opportunity to be transparent.
ASHLEY
One thing I think is interesting is in marketing, we’re always looking for a way to drive urgency, you know, by now save your spot now. Everything is now. Do it now. And so I think, you know, we’re talking about opportunity in a way the the urgency is there. Customers are clearly extremely aware that prices are likely to go up.
00;10;31;19 – 00;10;53;22
ASHLEY
You know, and people there’s a lot of uncertainty, uncertainty about maybe how much it’ll go up. But I think everyone is expecting to see some sort of instability in pricing. Or maybe even availability. And so I think it’s really interesting that in a way, you know, a lot of people are talking about like, yeah, not only be transparent about it, but this is the urgency.
00;10;53;29 – 00;11;17;06
ASHLEY
It’s there. So, you know, thinking about using some of those examples of lock in your price. I mean, not only is that extremely urgent, but it’s also very transparent, like, hey, prices likely will go up. And I think about some of my clients that are like in the manufacturing industry or, you know, in some of the, they provide goods, if you will.
00;11;17;09 – 00;11;36;01
ASHLEY
And I think that they’re also a little bit unsure of what is going to come next. And so any way that we can use kind of the, the heat of the moment to lock in the business that they can get now is just so important.
RYAN
Yeah. Don’t ignore it and assume that your customers aren’t thinking about it because we saw 91%.
00;11;36;01 – 00;11;54;11
RYAN
Like Jen said, 91% of people are aware of the tariffs. Those 9% I don’t I don’t know what they’re doing. But companies like Nestle, for example, they ran a campaign called Stock Up and Save. They wanted to get people to buy a lot of their product. They’re shelf stable products. Now, to, to get ahead of it.
00;11;54;15 – 00;12;15;02
RYAN
And Nike, they had one where their whole campaign shop now before prices rise. It was a campaign Nike ran a campaign that was arguably not creative at all and just said, shop now before prices rise, before you, before summer hits. Get those. Get those new running shoes now. Don’t wait. And then caterpillar adding a little bit of creativity.
00;12;15;02 – 00;12;38;29
RYAN
They said building through uncertainty.
JEN
Well and and even car ads changing really quickly. I mean, this has been probably 2 or 3 weeks now that I saw Nissan ran, a commercial that looks like any other commercial they’ve run except the voiceover talked about their parts being or their cars being made in America and, you know, keeping prices stable through tariffs.
00;12;39;01 – 00;12;56;26
JEN
That’s, I’ve never seen that in my career. I have never seen it in my career. But also, we live in an age where you can rapidly adapt, and change up your creative really quickly. And we are seeing that shift happen, like, right, right in front of our eyes. So, who knows what’s going to happen with the tariffs?
00;12;56;26 – 00;13;19;07
JEN
We’re not getting into that today and we don’t know how long we’ll be in it. But being adaptable to the situation while building empathy and urgency at the same time is a balance that I think we’re seeing some people, some advertisers really master it and we are seeing some put their head in the sand.
ASHLEY
Yeah. I think that’s a really good point Jen.
00;13;19;07 – 00;13;39;29
ASHLEY
And it’s not just Nissan. You know we’re seeing it all across the industry. Ford’s also saying the same thing. And and so at that point when you’re all using kind of the same urgency message what differentiates them at that point?
JEN
Right. Right. Basically the only differentiation they have is the advertisers who are not doing it. So not good for your brand as well.
00;13;39;29 – 00;13;56;28
JEN
Back to the age of AD bridge, right?
ASHLEY
Exactly.
RYAN
That was our tariff talk for today?
ASHLEY
We’re done triggering Jen I think at this point.
JEN
Thank you. Going to go take some l-theanine or something now and calm myself down.
RYAN
Now let’s talk a little bit more about our topic today. Here’s another. We call it connecting the dots.
00;13;56;28 – 00;14;21;04
RYAN
But really it is about maximizing that the content that you have Jen you want to kick us off?
JEN
Yeah. I mean marketing has always meant managing a lot of different moving parts. And it is really difficult sometimes to see the bigger picture when you are in the middle of the picture. I mean, I think about you go up to a store and it looks closed because nobody has thought about whether you can see the lights from the outside or maybe whether the open sign is visible.
00;14;21;04 – 00;14;48;26
JEN
Right? It’s it’s really about stepping back and looking at the entire business and what you’re trying to achieve. So, Ashley, you are often overseeing multiple initiatives with multiple clients. You’re overseeing the brand, the customer experience, reputation. Sometimes we’re we’re thinking about the physical environment. It’s easy to miss critical elements or lose objectivity when you are working with a client.
00;14;48;26 – 00;15;14;14
JEN
I want to dig into how you help them look at that and see that objective picture here, and how you build plans that not only meet their needs, but also provide refreshingly meaningful results.
ASHLEY
Yeah. I think one thing that I’ve really pushed myself to do in the last couple of years is really take the time to plan and think it through, which I know in marketing where I feel like we’re always just going from one campaign to the next campaign.
00;15;14;14 – 00;15;30;23
ASHLEY
And, you know, we feel like we’re behind because everything, the timelines, just keep getting moved up and up. And so I’ve had the opportunity to do some strategic planning meetings with a couple of my clients and really sit down and like, okay, you know what went well last year? What are some opportunities for this next coming year?
00;15;30;28 – 00;15;54;03
ASHLEY
And let’s get really specific on like what the goal is, is it, you know, rolling out a new service line. Is it, you know, wanting to get more followers, more customers, build trust. There’s all different types of goals that go so beyond just making more money or sales, if you will. And so, you know, thinking through how can we have each activity?
00;15;54;03 – 00;16;11;06
ASHLEY
I like to say different, you know, marketing activities. How can we have each marketing activity build on itself and be connected to each other? So say, you know, we have an email campaign going out about this specific thing. Well, what is what’s the experience like for your consumer once they get that email, where are they going next? Okay.
00;16;11;09 – 00;16;28;17
ASHLEY
They’re on your website. What does the experience look like on your website? How does that tie in to what you’re doing on social? How does that tie into some press releases that you’re doing? Or I think that really sounds kind of cheesy, but like taking that moment and like stepping back and thinking, putting yourself in your customer’s shoes.
00;16;28;17 – 00;16;49;29
ASHLEY
I think that’s where I get to, like, leverage some of that journalism background that I have is, every story, I had to think, okay, I am I’m the person sitting at home on my couch. I and my self, the journalist has three minutes to discuss this really intense topic. Where do I start? What’s their base level of knowledge and how deep can I get into it?
00;16;50;00 – 00;17;07;11
ASHLEY
You know, and so really like looking at every single thing that we do from the outside perspective is so helpful because, you know, you’ll read something and it’s like, oh, well, I know this and, you know, you assume so much that it’s so helpful when you can even, like, give it to someone else who has no clue about what you’re doing.
00;17;07;11 – 00;17;27;03
ASHLEY
Like, hey, read this. Does this make sense? What’s missing? And sometimes that takes a little bit of, like, humility, you know, to to open the door and, like, let people let people in, if you will. But I think that that’s been, really kind of successful. Also, looking at defining who your audience is, we want to appeal to everyone.
00;17;27;03 – 00;17;47;07
ASHLEY
Everyone does. Right? Like we want everyone to be our customer. But when everyone is your customer, you lose like your fans, your fan base. And that’s something that I’ve, I’ve been reading a little bit more about recently is that, you know, word of mouth these days is so powerful. Everyone’s using AI. The more everyone uses AI, the more we all sound the same.
00;17;47;14 – 00;18;06;18
ASHLEY
For instance, with Ford and Nissan, they’re talking the exact same, you know, about, you know, locking in your price or about, you know, price sensitivity. But how can they kind of connect to their fan base, if you will? You know, that’s that’s where their message is going to resonate most because they don’t need to differentiate themselves from Nissan.
00;18;06;18 – 00;18;29;29
ASHLEY
They already have.
JEN
How do they how do they remind people why they consistently choose that brand of car, that make, that model over their competitors while still having that, let’s say, tariff forward message?
ASHLEY
Exactly. And I think that was something that’s been really helpful too is like defining your audience and getting really specific. And, it’s probably a little taboo to talk about.
00;18;29;29 – 00;18;47;24
ASHLEY
But, you know, in media you have, your viewer, if you will, it’s a whole persona. They have a name, much like a lot of brands have a persona for their customer, their customers, the news also does as well. And they don’t want you to know that. But there is that.
JEN
Deep secrets from from Ashley.
00;18;47;24 – 00;19;11;18
ASHLEY
Very deep secrets.
JEN
Are you out of your NDA period now?
ASHLEY
Yes, I am out of my NDA period. Actually. We’re good. And so it’s like, why would Sarah care about this story? That wasn’t her name, but we’ll we’ll give it that to her. And so, you know, kind of thinking through that lens of like, who is the audience that I am most likely to convert to whatever it is, a donation, a sale.
00;19;11;20 – 00;19;28;04
ASHLEY
What do they want? What speaks to them? What’s their pain points? Because my pain point is not the same as your pain point. And, and so I think that that’s been really helpful too, is like we have to be able to narrow in and sometimes I feel like that’s really hard for clients to hear because they want as many customers as possible.
00;19;28;04 – 00;19;51;19
ASHLEY
And while I also want that we have to be really clear and like who you’re serving and what they need. And so that’s something that I’ve been pushing myself and our teams to do more and more as well.
RYAN
And going back to that, the connecting the dots, you mentioned, a direct mail piece that then has an email marketing component that then has a landing page that goes to each one of those pieces or activities.
00;19;51;19 – 00;20;10;13
RYAN
Those are those dots that you are so good at, at connecting. So really a campaign is one of those connect the dots pictures, right?
ASHLEY
Exactly. One thing that I really love to do is dig into the data. And again, I’m big numbers like I love a good number and I want to know what like why what’s the why behind that number.
00;20;10;15 – 00;20;26;26
ASHLEY
So one of our clients we started looking at like, okay, what are the keywords that people are clicking on the most? Like, what are people searching for when they’re searching for this client? And we were able to find that, I think there was a certain competitor that was also getting a lot of clicks around some of the same keywords.
00;20;26;26 – 00;20;44;06
ASHLEY
And so we’re like, well, why don’t we run a comparison campaign? And, and so it’s driven by data. And so then we’re like, okay, so we wrote a bunch of ads around that. What’s the differentiator between our brand versus their brand? And so okay, we’ve got the ads running for that. But then where are we sending them.
00;20;44;08 – 00;21;10;27
ASHLEY
We need to have a page that’s super specific. If if our ads say this and people are clicking on them, clearly they want more information about it. So if that’s not also the experience that you’re getting on the landing page, that’s a huge miss. So we wrote a specific landing page that directly compared those two brands. And then, you know, had a specific form that would go through so that the sales person then when they’re getting that hand off, know exactly where they came from, exactly what motivated them to get there.
00;21;11;00 – 00;21;34;16
ASHLEY
And then, of course, part of connecting the dots is circling back around with sales, which could be its own podcast as well. Marketing and Sales. How do we get along? How do we play in the sandbox and how do we help each other?
ANNIE
Oh Hey, it’s Annie with another producer’s note. It is its own podcast. If you want to learn more about sales and marketing and how they can work together, go back and listen to season one, episode six of Think Fresh with Jill Mast.
00;21;34;18 – 00;21;56;06
ANNIE
We’ll link it in the show notes. Okay, moving on
ASHLEY
Again, part of connecting the dots is making sure that the whole experience that your customer or your consumer is getting is thought through and makes sense.
RYAN
And I think that sales connection, that’s a huge piece because marketers like like you said, it’s a the hot topic. Marketers are like once the lead comes through, they’re done.
00;21;56;10 – 00;22;15;08
RYAN
But it is so helpful for that sales team then to know this person or this this lead cares a lot about the competition. So when they’re talking with them on the phone, they can pepper in some of that competition. Like we don’t do things like X, Y, and Z that makes it so much more helpful. And and like you said, it’s a it’s a thought through process.
00;22;15;10 – 00;22;31;15
ASHLEY
Well, and everything is marketing and sales can feed marketing. You know, we want to know what’s the next campaign we should be running. What are the frequently asked questions that your salespeople get? What’s the biggest pain point? Where do they fall off in the funnel? These are all things that can help you fuel – What’s your next piece of content?
00;22;31;15 – 00;22;50;23
ASHLEY
What’s your next campaign like? I, I just, I think that that like gets me so excited, which is nerdy.
RYAN
So Ashley you were saying how, the last example you gave, it started with a direct mail piece, and it became so much more. Some of the other things that I’ve seen you do are, are taking like video footage, for example.
00;22;50;23 – 00;23;11;19
RYAN
And this is prevalent in my mind because we had Annie talk about this on, on a previous episode, but and we kind of also just talked about it when we were covering Ford and, and Nissan. They had all this footage and they already created a spot with this footage. But just because that footage is done does not mean you can’t use that footage for something else, right?
00;23;11;22 – 00;23;29;25
ASHLEY
Exactly, exactly. And this comes back to putting yourself in your consumersshoes. I’ve seen a piece of content so many times. I’m tired of it. I never want to see it again. Surely everyone else is so tired of it. They are not living in the same universe as you. They have so many other things throughout their day.
00;23;29;29 – 00;23;49;01
ASHLEY
Just because they may be scrolled on a video, watched it a year ago doesn’t mean that they’re going to remember, like, hey, I saw that again. And so there’s just so many opportunities to reuse and leverage, and I like to use the word leverage instead, because it sounds like we’re really just using our resources correctly, which is what you should be doing.
00;23;49;01 – 00;24;09;02
ASHLEY
But yeah. So a lot of times I think this also goes back to like that scrappy mindset of being like a one woman band. If I can go and reuse something that I’ve shot before that saved me, gosh, an hour and and you know, my day when I was doing so many other things. And so I kind of like to bring that mindset here as well.
00;24;09;05 – 00;24;30;24
ASHLEY
You know, photo / video shoots are an investment for clients. They’re they’re big investment. And so how can we leverage what we’ve done in the past and build upon that in a new way? And sometimes it is as easy as going back into your library and looking for, different, different, you know, shots that relate to whatever you’re trying to say now.
00;24;30;26 – 00;24;50;22
ASHLEY
I mean, if you would have asked me, have I seen that Ford commercial before? I don’t know, they all look the same also. So I probably would have said, yes, it’s a car driving in dirt, I don’t know. Yes. But yeah, I just think that it’s such a good opportunity and it’s a way for you to be able to be more, I want to say reactive because that kind of can have like a negative connotation with it.
00;24;50;28 – 00;25;12;15
ASHLEY
But you can be quick, you can be ready for the moment. And so I think that that is super powerful. It’s a good use of things that you’ve already invested in. And it’s also a great way to build consistency. I always think back to, you know, in and, when I was in school and they always talked about like the rule or the power of three, people need to hear something three times in order to really absorb it.
00;25;12;17 – 00;25;30;02
ASHLEY
People need to be able to hear it three times in order to be able to trust that it’s real. And so I always think about, like, you know, we want to reach people multiple times with, you know, maybe the same message or a different message. But, so I think, like, you know, when you’re scrolling on your feed and you see it and you’re like, oh, wait, I think I’ve seen that before.
00;25;30;08 – 00;26;03;00
ASHLEY
I think that’s actually a great thing because you’re building that like that, familiarity and that trust
JEN
And recall. Exactly, exactly. I like to think of it as cornerstone content, but, you know, thinking about it, if you’re thinking about it from a year perspective, maybe creating four big pieces of content that then you pull these pieces off of and you pull a transcript from the video and you write a blog about it, and you chop it up into pieces for shorter ads, like using that investment that you made and not just playing it once and saying, okay, we did it.
00;26;03;00 – 00;26;23;29
JEN
I think nonprofits are really often the worst at this. Like, we want this video for our annual meeting. And then they maybe they put it on social media right after the annual meeting, but then it doesn’t come back up again, like you made an investment in that content. Use it. Use it multiple different ways and in multiple different formats.
00;26;24;02 – 00;26;59;25
JEN
And also when you are building a content library, sometimes you have pieces and parts from those shoots that you never even used, that you can go back and you can pull from, and you can freshen something up and make it look brand new, but still have the same consistent messaging.
ASHLEY
Exactly. Yes. I that, that, just reminded me of another, example for instance is we same thing we had kind of like this, this video for a nonprofit client, it’s like, okay, how can we cut this down, put it on social media as a tease to make them sign up for their newsletter, which has maybe a transfer story about it, which could also lead.
00;26;59;25 – 00;27;17;21
ASHLEY
Then if they’re interested in learning more to a landing page with maybe the full video, like there’s so many ways to use and leverage, I think sometimes we get a little bit scared that we’re like, we’re being too repetitive, but there’s a way to kind of tease someone along a journey where, they feel like they get to discover the information for themselves.
00;27;17;21 – 00;27;36;00
ASHLEY
So taking a piece of it and using that to I mean, that’s also like the journalism part of me, like get your best sound bite, put it in the commercial, get them to tune into the 6:00 news. It’s it’s all about like, leveraging and just really using the heck out of whatever you’ve got, to your advantage.
00;27;36;00 – 00;28;00;10
ASHLEY
And I think that’s really important, especially for nonprofits.
JEN
So actually, sometimes a client will bring us, a statistic, right. Like, and and that’s great. I mean, it is what underpins everything, but, I’ve heard you say this before. Numbers are cold, right? How how do you think through those opportunities when a client says, we want to talk about our 8% growth here or, you know, whatever that number is?
00;28;00;13 – 00;28;18;13
ASHLEY
As a journalist, I do. I love a number, but you always have to put that number in context, right? So 8% growth. What does that mean to me? What does that mean to someone to my customer? You know, thinking in the journalism lens, what does that number here in Cedar Rapids matter to someone up in Dubuque or, you know, thinking through your whole coverage area.
00;28;18;15 – 00;28;36;15
ASHLEY
And so, you know, we talked about the Met Gala earlier and, I think, what was it, $31 million raised? Was that just this year?
RYAN
Yeah, they raised $31 million. It was their their highest grossing year.
ASHLEY
Which $31 million. That is crazy. But what I automatically want to know the why. I need to know the why. What are they using it for?
00;28;36;15 – 00;28;57;19
ASHLEY
Why? Why do they need to raise money for this organization? How does that impact me? My life? How does that impact our state? Just all of those ways that we can think about putting numbers in perspective. And I especially try to push our nonprofit clients into this because so often we’re asking for money. And so there’s so many places you can give your money these days.
00;28;57;19 – 00;29;19;09
ASHLEY
You can give it to all sorts of organizations. So why give it? Why give it to them? And so one thing that, you know, I try to I try to really push for and dig for is, okay, what is this money going to be used for? And then beyond that, how have we used it? How has that impacted whatever their, you know, their area of interest is.
00;29;19;11 – 00;29;40;07
ASHLEY
So let’s say, you know, we’re looking for a $50 donation that will go to this program. This program benefited ten people last year. Some people are like, oh, ten is not that much. Some people are like ten is so many. But it’s really all about how we put that in context. So if we were to tell one of those ten people’s story, suddenly we’ve really put that number into context.
00;29;40;07 – 00;30;07;27
ASHLEY
We’ve given it a life.
JEN
You’ve humanized it.
ASHLEY
Emotion, exactly. We’re we’re all just wanting to like, relate and connect. And we want to know that where we’re putting our money, our effort, our time is doing good. And so, you know, finding out that I allowed, you know, a woman or whoever, a person, an opportunity to get their first apartment or, you know, not wonder where their next meal is coming from, like, that is so, so exciting.
00;30;08;04 – 00;30;29;00
ASHLEY
And so I. Yeah, any time that you’ve got a number that you really want to highlight, think about how can I put this number into perspective? How can I get someone to care? Why should they care? Why does that number matter? There is a reason. Sometimes you just really have to dig for it.
JEN
Yeah, I remember when infographics were the big thing and I remember just thinking, these are just numbers on a page.
00;30;29;00 – 00;30;49;19
JEN
I know they’re exciting. And sometimes the numbers move right?
RYAN
Ooh, sometimes they’re moving!
JEN
But they still didn’t tell a story. And people say, let the numbers tell the story. Let the story tell the story every time.
ASHLEY
Or let the numbers be a catalyst to the story. You know, like, maybe that’s what draws them in like, oh, 75% or, you know, whatever that is.
00;30;49;19 – 00;31;07;05
ASHLEY
But then it’s like, yeah, you’ve got to put that human aspect to it. And I love that.
RYAN
And when you can look at those numbers, and some people might be connecting those dots on their own, but when you can connect those dots for them, and I think you do a great job of that with your clients. Like they’ll bring you that stat and you, you think through it like a, like a story.
00;31;07;08 – 00;31;24;04
RYAN
You think through it like a news story. And I think that’s why you have such great PR opportunities for your clients because, you know, like, okay, this is a stat, but let’s get that one story. Do you have any other tips like that when you are, either pitching a piece or or connecting those dots for your clients?
00;31;24;06 – 00;31;48;26
ASHLEY
Well, another thing is always, oh, I know, I’ll just say it and we can cut it if we don’t want it. But one thing, and that was always kind of like “dumb it down” and it sounds bad, but, you know, we’re reaching a mass audience education levels and people’s backgrounds, and, you know, how they understand and interpret things is so different.
JEN
And just how much bandwidth they have to even consume the message.
00;31;48;26 – 00;32;14;11
ASHLEY
Exactly, exactly. So always thinking through like, how can I make this as simple as possible without, without like losing some of the, the, the jazz of it? We’ll say. So I always try to say, like, you know, just from the, you know, whatever it is, a press release or, or however you’re introducing something, always think through what is the simplest way to say this.
00;32;14;13 – 00;32;34;28
ASHLEY
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have to be creative. It just means how is what’s the easiest way for someone to digest this? Other other tips for for pitching ideas? I just have to scream this really fast. It’s so simple. But if you’re sending out a press release, send a photo. Send a photo with your press release.
00;32;35;00 – 00;32;54;19
RYAN
Why?
ASHLEY
Yes. Great, great. Great question. I had a quota that I, and I don’t know if they still do this, but I had a quota of web stories that I had to post a month. So in my in so much of the downtime that I had in my job, which was zero, I needed to be able to kind of just repost, other people’s press releases.
00;32;54;22 – 00;33;13;08
ASHLEY
And I’ll be honest, if it didn’t have a photo, it wasn’t going up, because that was more time that I had to spend to look for some generic generic graphic that I like a generic graphic is not going to get anyone to click on it like I cares about that. So that is like one of the simplest things that you can do that really goes far.
00;33;13;10 – 00;33;36;03
RYAN
What do you do when you get some good feedback from either your client’s customers or your clients on pieces? What do you keep using it? Do you try to pivot it? What have you done for your clients?
ASHLEY
So we ended up taking a direct mail piece for a, for an annual appeal. We got so much feedback that like, wow, that really connected the dots for me for the first time, and then turning that into a donor leave behind.
00;33;36;03 – 00;33;56;28
ASHLEY
So, you know, you’re speaking to some big donors. You need some sort of visual. Clearly that already connected with your audience. There’s no reason why we wouldn’t kind of tailor that to whatever the next need is. Some organizations are so complex in how they operate, especially when you’re, you know, you’re asking people for money. They need to be able to understand what the benefit is.
00;33;57;05 – 00;34;18;03
ASHLEY
And so if your audience is telling you that that resonated with them, do not bury what you did. So always looking for ways that you can help connect the dots. And and I guess one way I can put that in perspective is as a journalist, I am learning a new topic every day. Today I’m going to be a specialist in, in clean water.
00;34;18;03 – 00;34;41;29
ASHLEY
Tomorrow I’m going to interview a doctor about influenza. The next day I’m going to talk to an engineer about a bridge. I am not an expert in any of these things, but I have to be for the day in order to correctly inform the public about why this matters to them. So, you know, think like the kindness of thinking it through for the journalists and trying to give them a one sheet when they’re there with you.
00;34;42;05 – 00;35;05;09
ASHLEY
Give them a fact sheet, give them like help put it in perspective for them. Hey, you know, here’s the press release. Here’s an event. We have someone for you to speak to speak to. They benefited from this program. Like, just like, help lay it out for them, too. I think sometimes, like, they want to make the event sound so jazzy and we just need to keep it simple.
00;35;05;09 – 00;35;25;17
ASHLEY
Sometimes that get them there, keep it simple. If people want to learn more, they will. And I think that’s one thing that people always want to say. Well, we need to say this and we need to say that. And then this person needs credit and that person needs credit. At the end of the day, if we can just get the information out there, hook the audience if they are interested, they will learn more.
00;35;25;22 – 00;35;44;29
ASHLEY
They will find out who the sponsor was. They will find out who, you know, funded the program. It’s sometimes we’re so worried about who’s going to get credit that we just muddy down the, the actual point so much that it doesn’t matter anymore.
JEN
It’s the same thing when people want to put everything on the home page of a website, right?
00;35;45;00 – 00;36;05;00
JEN
Like you can’t put everything on the home page of a website.
ASHLEY
And you should not.
JEN
But I am, you know, when you are talking about reusing that, you were talking about the annual appeal piece, reusing that content in different ways. Maybe to some people in marketing that might feel like we’re not producing something new and exciting.
00;36;05;00 – 00;36;27;04
JEN
But, you know, what we are doing is we’re building consistency, which builds recall, which builds brand awareness and loyalty. So, you know, it’s not – we always want to create more. You know, we do. But there is so much benefit and staying on message and connecting the dots and re leveraging some of that content does that for you as a marketer.
00;36;27;06 – 00;36;49;10
ASHLEY
Exactly. And the next iteration of that could be creative in a different way. But you don’t have to worry about saying something new. You can focus on kind of the creativity of of it, of whatever it looks like. And so I think that that’s also an exciting challenge as well. So yeah, I, I do think that we’re always looking for the next thing, but sometimes it’s about building that consistency.
00;36;49;10 – 00;37;09;17
ASHLEY
Not everyone has seen what you did. So show it to them again and then again.
RYAN
…and then again! Right? Three times.
ASHLEY
Three times.
RYAN
So Ashley, you’ve created this campaign. You’ve connected all of the dots. But where do you go from there? Where do you how do you keep going?
ASHLEY
Measure, refine and refresh. You have to be able to measure your work.
00;37;09;17 – 00;37;26;00
ASHLEY
And that is something that we’ve heard from other marketers in our space. Is, wanting more information on how do you prove value? How do you show, how do you show the value that marketing is doing? And especially now when marketing budgets are kind of up in the air, then it always seems like the first thing to go.
00;37;26;00 – 00;37;48;27
ASHLEY
You have to be able to show your work, if you will. And so part of that is measuring whatever you can as part of your campaign, whether it’s open rates, whether it’s click through rates, whether it’s impressions, engagements, like literally whatever you can measure, start there. You have to be able to benchmark yourself. Sometimes I think it can be a little bit scary because, you know, is it going to be good?
00;37;48;27 – 00;38;07;29
ASHLEY
Is it going to be bad? Is it unimpressive? What does that number even mean? You have to be able to get the number in order to understand what it means. So, and it provides you some, some real data to benchmark against in the future. And if you if you don’t start measuring and benchmarking yourself, you never know. Is this campaign resonating?
00;38;07;29 – 00;38;24;27
ASHLEY
What do I need to change? Like we love a good AB test. I think AB tests are great. You can get a little bit of data on okay, what message is resonating more, what image is resonating more? We have to be able to start somewhere. We have to be able to measure. And so that’s my that’s my biggest tip.
00;38;25;05 – 00;38;46;02
ASHLEY
Start measuring. Even if you’re scared you have to do it.
JEN
And data can come in a lot of different forms. So we can be driving leads. But if they aren’t qualified leads, if we don’t get that feedback, then we can’t improve the quality of the leads. If we think, wow, we’re driving tons of people to this page and they’re filling out the form and none of them close on the other end.
00;38;46;04 – 00;39;01;22
JEN
Maybe it’s just crappy salespeople, but chances are we need to tweak something on the lead generation side of it to get it dialed in to what they need. Don’t be afraid of the negative.
ASHLEY
Exactly. That can show you. That can also be an indicator, what your audience is looking for. Where did they fall off in the funnel?
00;39;01;24 – 00;39;21;12
ASHLEY
What does that mean? And how can we turn that into a positive? And the next thing that we do?
RYAN
Now it’s time for our segment called Creative Briefs. This is where we dig into a marketing campaign, company or idea and see what insights we can glean from their marketing moves. Before we get started on our creative briefs today I have a pop quiz.
00;39;21;14 – 00;39;48;25
ASHLEY
Shoot it!
RYAN
Okay, the pop quiz is which of these four posters takes the shortest amount of time to cook?
ASHLEY
E all of the above.
RYAN
Your options are linguine, spaghetti, fusilli and penne. Which of those four takes the shortest amount of time to cook?
ASHLEY
Spaghetti?
JEN
I agree spaghetti. It’s going to be the third one.
RYAN
You want me read them again?
00;39;48;25 – 00;40;09;02
JEN
It’s not fusili.
ASHLEY
No. Tell me the answer.
RYAN
You guys were correct. It was spaghetti. How did you know that?
JEN
Because it’s the thinnest one.
ASHLEY
I’m a pasta connoisseur.
JEN
I knew it wasn’t fusili because that was what I had googled because I saw it in the show notes here, so.
ASHLEY
Linguine is a fat noodle.
00;40;09;05 – 00;40;28;13
ASHLEY
That’s taking a while.
RYAN
Okay, so you guys have a whole lot more insight into how long it takes to cook pasta, because I don’t make pasta because I don’t, I’m not good at cooking it. I always end up burning it or making it too soft and mushy outside of throwing it at the, at my wall to see if it sticks, I don’t know how else to do it, but I don’t want to get too far ahead of ourselves.
00;40;28;13 – 00;40;55;14
RYAN
Jen, do you care to explain our creative brief this week?
JEN
I do, so, this, I came across this from another podcast and I just thought it was the cutest thing. So, the pasta company Barilla, which I may or may not be pronouncing right, and I can’t roll L’s or R’s or anything like that. So Barilla launched a campaign that was, in partnership with Spotify, and it was meant to give you a time to cook any of their pastas.
00;40;55;21 – 00;41;20;16
JEN
So I believe that fusilli is the longest pasta. So there were more songs on that playlist. And I think it had the song Help from the Beatles, which I thought was funny. Maybe for you in particular, since you can’t cook pasta at all. But it was just a really great eye catching way to do it. But when you read into a little bit more about the campaign, part of it was a lot of people overcook their pasta, or undercook it.
00;41;20;16 – 00;41;42;04
JEN
And if you know anything about cooking, you can’t go back and cook pasta after you’ve undercooked it. And also in Italy, apparently using leftover pasta is a part of a main dish as well. So they want you to cook it perfectly. So they gave you playlists for each type of pasta and the cover art on these playlists is really, really cute.
00;41;42;07 – 00;42;03;18
JEN
So just that’s like from a creative perspective, what a great way to help people do a better job and also get your brand in front of them when they’re cooking dinner and they’re playing it on their device in their kitchen.
ASHLEY
What a great way to connect the dots and think about the whole customer journey.
JEN
There you go connecting the dots, connecting the pasta!
00;42;03;18 – 00;42;19;22
RYAN
And I do really like it because it’s going after that. Like like you said, Jen, they they were struggling with people, not knowing how to cook pasta. So therefore you just don’t do it.
JEN
So I will say it is on the back of the box. How to cook pasta.
RYAN
People don’t read. We know that.
ASHLEY
What a fun multimedia way.
00;42;19;22 – 00;42;42;09
ASHLEY
Like what a fun way to engage your customers and also very smart to partner with Spotify. They’re obviously working to you know it’s a it’s a pat each other’s back situation.
JEN
Absolutely. It’s connecting the dots as you said.
RYAN
So this reminded me when when you first mentioned this Jen, it reminded me of the different songs that you can sing in your head when you’re giving CPR to somebody.
00;42;42;11 – 00;43;07;24
RYAN
So it’s equating music and things that people love with
JEN
That Staying Alive campaign was brilliant that they did. I mean, that I thankfully – I’m going to make noise on the – thankfully, I have never had to perform CPR on anybody. But I do know that I just need to basically keep doing that to the beat of the song Staying Alive by the BeeGees is one of the greatest songs ever made.
00;43;07;27 – 00;43;27;03
JEN
Until like, hopefully you have a positive outcome, but it was brilliant.
RYAN
Exactly.
JEN
It’s easy to remember.
RYAN
And they’ve created, I think this is the American Heart Association. They’ve then also created other playlists that have other songs that match that BPM, so that if if you don’t know the song by the Bee Gees.
JEN
If you’re not a child of the 70s, is that what you’re saying?
00;43;27;03 – 00;43;47;11
ASHLEY
I was going to say, I just need to plug my girl real quick. Chappell Roan – Pink Pony Club also the same. Yes CPR yes.
JEN
You wouldn’t think.
ASHLEY
Pink Pony Club.
ANNIE
Okay, I’m going to have to cut you off.
ASHLEY
Oh, yeah. Sorry.
ANNIE
Copyright purposes.
ASHLEY
Copyright purposes. We could not include me singing.
RYAN
And it sounded way too close to Chappell Roan.
00;43;47;16 – 00;44;10;00
ASHLEY
It was so on note.
JEN
It really was.
RYAN
But I do think that Jen, you also kind of mentioned playing it when they’re in their kitchen. And so many people have alexas, they have speakers and ways to listen to music in their kitchen. I really love that idea and I will be honest, I don’t have a kitchen timer. I use my phone a lot, and if I could just listen to a playlist and then that will be when I’m done. Genius
00;44;10;02 – 00;44;32;03
JEN
But you Ryan, do you eat carbs?
RYAN
No, I would never.
ASHLEY
What a sad, sad life. I love a good carb, but also I saw it go viral on social media, so that’s, you know, not only is it fun for, like, it’s actually, like, purposeful. It actually is so much fun and really created a buzz around their buzz.
JEN
And hopefully decreases food waste right?
ASHLEY
Here for that.
JEN
Win win.
00;44;32;03 – 00;44;49;22
ASHLEY
Thinking about that example, like, what are some ways or what are some things that, you could put into context with music or things that are really familiar with people that kind of relate back to your brand, whether it’s, you know, washing your hands for however long based on some music or what, however that might apply to you.
00;44;49;22 – 00;45;07;10
ASHLEY
This is kind of a a fun little creative, brain puzzle that you can think on, right?
JEN
And brands can build mnemonic devices even with their jingles and their music that they play. Like you all know, the McDonald’s song, I’m not going to sing it for you because nobody wants to hear that, but you know it when I say it.
00;45;07;13 – 00;45;12;24
JEN
And then there’s this.
00;45;12;26 – 00;45;44;07
JEN
So, this week, Skype was finally laid to rest, by Microsoft, its parent company, which still has teams, which I actually think is worse than Skype, frankly. But, you know, this was what got us all started on video conferencing. It made it accessible to families, to businesses. So, you know, would we have gotten through COVID if Skype hadn’t paved the way for us?
00;45;44;07 – 00;45;51;00
JEN
So, let’s just take an awkward moment of silence for Skype right now.
00;45;55;04 – 00;46;16;05
ASHLEY
Oh, leave it to me to ruin a moment of silence with a little giggle. Sorry, they didn’t call me Cadet Giggles in ROTC for nothing. So Cadet Giggles signing off.
JEN
That was disrespectful to Skype.
ASHLEY
Sorry, Skype.
RYAN
Ashley, outside of ruining a beautiful, touching tribute to Skype, I do have to thank you for being here. You provided some amazing insights to our listeners.
00;46;16;05 – 00;46;34;10
RYAN
The same insights that you share with your clients day in and day out. Thank you for being on Think Fresh.
ASHLEY
Thank you for having me here.
JEN
It was so fun having you.
ASHLEY
I’m looking forward to next time.
JEN
Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Think Fresh.
RYAN
And remember, the conversation does not have to end here.
00;46;34;14 – 00;47;05;26
RYAN
If you liked what you heard today, be sure to follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram. Review our show on whatever you listen to your podcast on, or share all your marketing trials and triumphs by shooting us an email at info@thinkdenovo.com with the subject line dear de novo so we don’t miss it.
JEN
And while you wait eagerly for our next episode, you can get your fix by checking out our blog, freshthinking@blog.thinkdenovo.com stay tuned for more engaging conversations, laughs, and of course, marketing brilliance and be making fun of Ryan in the next episodes to come.
00;47;05;29 – 00;47;16;18
RYAN
Here’s to fresh thinking, sparking creativity, and never being boring. Bye friends!
JEN
Are we swearing on this or no?
RYAN
We’re doing this.
JEN
All right. Hello and welcome to th – were you talking? Oh, my God. All right, we’ll try this again. Ryan, are you settled?
RYAN
I’m Settled.
JEN
Okay.
00;00;20;18 – 00;00;41;06
JEN
Hello, and welcome to Think Fresh, a podcast brought to you by de Novo Marketing’s Collective Creative. Coming to you from our Ideas Institute and here to talk about all things marketing. Insights on new trends, innovative ideas and marketing tools you can use in your day to day life – and whatever else we deem relevant. I’m Jen Neumann, de Novo CEO and your host.
00;00;41;08 – 00;01;04;03
RYAN
And I’m Ryan Shenefelt, account manager, innovation and education lead and resident nosy eavesdropper, always looking to push the envelope.
JEN
He is indeed very, very nosy.
RYAN
Today we’re going to talk about connecting the dots in marketing. Today we’re joined by Ashley Burdt, who’s an account manager here at ae Novo. Ashley started her career as a photojournalist at KWWL, capturing authentic and compelling narratives.
00;01;04;21 – 00;01;30;19
RYAN
She brings those same skills to her de Novo team around planning, managing, holding and nurturing everyone’s attention. She can see the big picture and perfectly connect the dots for her clients. Ashley is also Deneuve’s only Emmy winner.
JEN
Yet.
RYAN
Yet.
ASHLEY
Ooh.
RYAN
Ashley, welcome to Think Fresh!
ASHLEY
Thanks, Ryan. Also known as Ashley Neighbor. In case you don’t recognize my name, I’m still kind of getting used to the whole married life situation.
00;01;30;23 – 00;01;54;11
JEN
I am not used to it yet. And frequently call you Ashley Neighbor. I’m so sorry.
ASHLEY
It’s okay. Legally, I am still… I think I’m still Ashley Neighbor. I haven’t changed it officially.
RYAN
Because you didn’t want to – you’ve had a big year! You got married, you got a new puppy, you went to Amsterdam and you are
JEN
Which is…
ASHLEY
…which is a country or a continent?
00;01;54;13 – 00;02;09;25
RYAN
It is a country. I did initially think it was only a city. What? You’re looking at me, is it not?
ASHLEY
It’s not a country. Amsterdam is not a country. I hate to break it to you.
RYAN
Oh, right. Right right right right right. Who, you. Who knows? Who knows? Who’s to say?
ASHLEY
Who is to say? It’s in the Netherlands, though. If that helps.
00;02;09;25 – 00;02;27;18
RYAN
You know what, team? I’m not going to fact check you. Like I was brutally fact checked by our producer in the last episode. That was potentially one of my favorite moments of of the podcast thus far.
ASHLEY
I’ve got to say, the former journalist in me loves a good fact check fact check me please.
00;02;27;21 – 00;02;50;19
RYAN
Well, actually, I do want to talk a little bit about about your career in journalism. What what drew you to journalism?
ASHLEY
That’s a good question. I, growing up, I always wanted to know why. So you try to tell me to do something and I’d be like, well, why? Obviously my parents loved that a lot. I was even in, ROTC for a small time in college, which people cannot, cannot believe.
00;02;50;21 – 00;03;14;06
ASHLEY
Just like your faces say.
JEN
I did not know that about you.
ASHLEY
It was, it was a trying time. And I quickly learned it was like, hey, you know, Cadet Neighbor, do this. And I was like, why? They hated that so much. You never need to know the why. You just need to do things. And so I started taking classes, obviously, as you do, when you’re in college, I was really drawn to public speaking.
00;03;14;13 – 00;03;37;12
ASHLEY
Believe it or not, I loved the public speaking class so much, I took it twice, just for funsies.
RYAN
You didn’t fail it the first time and you had to repeat it?
ASHLEY
I actually didn’t feel it.
JEN
That’s why I took classes twice in college.
ASHLEY
That might have been why I took statistics twice. Or algebra. I can’t remember which one, but public speaking, I took it twice because, where I went, the University of New Mexico, they had a journalism and communication, degree.
00;03;37;12 – 00;04;00;21
ASHLEY
So they’re both in one. They mean they kind of go hand in hand. Anyways, so I got really drawn into the multimedia journalism and then strategic communication. I did both concentrations because I was so interested in both topics. Ended up landing a job at KWWL, here in eastern Iowa, as a photojournalist, and then ended up working my way up to being a broadcast journalist on air.
00;04;00;21 – 00;04;19;12
ASHLEY
So, yeah, that was that’s a little bit about kind of how I got there, why I was drawn to journalism. But I could, I could go on about that forever.
RYAN
And it does tie into some of the things we’re going to talk about a little bit later in the episode. But today we just had a major, a major event.
00;04;19;12 – 00;04;40;08
RYAN
And I don’t know how major this is to everybody else, but this is a marketing podcast and part of marketing is pop culture. The Met Gala just happened. Did any of you watch or cover the red carpet of the Met Gala?
JEN
Are you serious? I mean, what do you know about me and how much attention I pay to fashion like the New York Times email
00;04;40;10 – 00;05;05;02
JEN
this morning was all about the Met Gala. I just deleted it. Like, I just don’t care.
ASHLEY
I don’t love the idea of the Met Gala. Like, the eco conscious person, like part of me doesn’t love it, but
JEN
Like the consumerism aspect of it?
ASHLEY
The consumerism. And just it feels so dystopian, kind of like watching it.
00;05;05;02 – 00;05;27;29
ASHLEY
But I, as a pop culture consumer, I really can’t help but like watch some of the highlight reels. I always love the, the attendees who kind of like, have a statement to make with their outfits. I like that part. I didn’t really see a ton of that this year.
RYAN
Neither did I. But I thought that the, I don’t know, the theme this year was kind of interesting, and I liked the historical aspect of it.
00;05;27;29 – 00;05;41;23
JEN
And what was the theme this year?
ASHLEY
It was well tailored suits.
JEN
Okay.
RYAN
Super Fine, Tailoring Black Style. The official the official theme.
ASHLEY
Thank you. And there is my first fact check.
00;05;41;26 – 00;06;00;27
RYAN
But I think that the the part, the reason that they bring this up is because it is an opportunity to, to get in front of people, right? Like that is why a lot of these stars and a lot of these people really want to get to the Met Gala. It’s invite only. And once you have, once you’ve been invited, that’s kind of a a badge of honor, if you will.
00;06;00;29 – 00;06;20;09
RYAN
Right? It’s a great opportunity to get in front of a lot of people, a lot of cameras, because the press is covering it. So it’s that opportunity to be in the press for an amazing outfit, really hitting the theme or the opposite, the worst dressed list, which guess what? People talk about you just as much.
ASHLEY
They do say no news is bad news.
00;06;20;16 – 00;06;38;13
RYAN
And from our from our news queen Ashley, look at that. But I think another piece of this is we, we’ve almost jumped the shark. And I know that that is an old term. But like have we gotten so far disconnected from the Met Gala that people don’t even know what it is anymore? Like, are we now missing the point of what the Met Gala is?
00;06;38;13 – 00;07;02;04
ASHLEY
Yes.
JEN
Yeah. I don’t I don’t think it’s as prominent in just people’s top of mind. It’s just not there anymore. I mean, that used to be, there’s just so many things going on in the world, but like, there’s so many big events and so many more, made for celebrity opportunities with social media that things like this are getting lost in the shuffle.
00;07;02;07 – 00;07;26;11
ASHLEY
And it’s the same thing every year, right? It’s a new theme, but it’s the same thing. People go and stand on a red carpet and that’s it.
RYAN
And look beautiful.
ASHLEY
And look gorgeous, which of course is something. But, these days people’s attention spans, like cool, saw it, what’s next? I’m scrolling along.
RYAN
Yes, it’s a small moment in your news feed, but on top of that, the gorgeous outfits and everything,
00;07;26;11 – 00;07;46;15
RYAN
It is the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s Costume Institute. It’s their major fundraiser. And this year, just just a no. No one talks about this piece of it. It was their their highest grossing fundraiser yet. They raised $31 million to keep that money.
JEN
That’s a lot of money for one night.
RYAN
And they raise that to keep the Costume Institute funded for another year.
00;07;46;16 – 00;08;08;00
RYAN
It also goes in line with their their new exhibition each year. So the theme of the Met is then the exhibition for that year’s Costume Institute, which I thought was kind of fun. Next. This is something we introduced last, last episode, but tariffs are still very much, very much the elephant in the room. Uncertainty is abound. Jen, do you have any any any tariff talk for today?
00;08;08;02 – 00;08;30;14
JEN
Oh yeah. You know I do. So actually, this comes from, something Ashley shared with our team. There’s a the Do This, Not That podcast, which is brand new to me. Very good shout out to those guys. It’s it’s really informative and quick, which I always appreciate. Unlike this podcast, which we go to that full hour.
00;08;30;14 – 00;08;53;21
JEN
Right. So, you know, we were just talking about numbers there, but, but here’s some, some big stats, right? Like 91% of people polled are aware of the tariffs. And of those 91%, 94% of people are concerned about them. So 6% of people are like, hey, we’re cool. You know, this is gonna be great for us, but 94% of people are concerned about them.
00;08;53;21 – 00;09;17;24
JEN
And then I hear this out in the business community all the time. And how companies are being impacted by it. So, the interesting thing is, when polled, 43% of decision makers say they’ll remain loyal, but they’re motivated by price. That means that over half of the people are motivated by price and price is outranking loyalty. And that’s a big shift.
00;09;17;26 – 00;09;40;16
JEN
Loyalty has usually trumped price. No pun intended. So, but this is an opportunity, and we should find opportunity anywhere we can in this environment right now. So basically, we cannot wish this away right? This this isn’t going away soon. We hope it goes away at some point. But we are going to have to adjust as business leaders.
00;09;40;16 – 00;10;09;03
JEN
So your calls to actions in emails and social media can reference locking in price or securing a rate. You’re going to use subject lines like rate freeze, price stability, transparency in pricing. Transparency in pricing is a really interesting thing to say too. One of the topics that I do want to dig into in this podcast coming soon, would be like the Edelman’s Trust Barometer and how how much do people trust businesses, right?
00;10;09;03 – 00;10;31;17
JEN
So here’s another opportunity to be transparent.
ASHLEY
One thing I think is interesting is in marketing, we’re always looking for a way to drive urgency, you know, by now save your spot now. Everything is now. Do it now. And so I think, you know, we’re talking about opportunity in a way the the urgency is there. Customers are clearly extremely aware that prices are likely to go up.
00;10;31;19 – 00;10;53;22
ASHLEY
You know, and people there’s a lot of uncertainty, uncertainty about maybe how much it’ll go up. But I think everyone is expecting to see some sort of instability in pricing. Or maybe even availability. And so I think it’s really interesting that in a way, you know, a lot of people are talking about like, yeah, not only be transparent about it, but this is the urgency.
00;10;53;29 – 00;11;17;06
ASHLEY
It’s there. So, you know, thinking about using some of those examples of lock in your price. I mean, not only is that extremely urgent, but it’s also very transparent, like, hey, prices likely will go up. And I think about some of my clients that are like in the manufacturing industry or, you know, in some of the, they provide goods, if you will.
00;11;17;09 – 00;11;36;01
ASHLEY
And I think that they’re also a little bit unsure of what is going to come next. And so any way that we can use kind of the, the heat of the moment to lock in the business that they can get now is just so important.
RYAN
Yeah. Don’t ignore it and assume that your customers aren’t thinking about it because we saw 91%.
00;11;36;01 – 00;11;54;11
RYAN
Like Jen said, 91% of people are aware of the tariffs. Those 9% I don’t I don’t know what they’re doing. But companies like Nestle, for example, they ran a campaign called Stock Up and Save. They wanted to get people to buy a lot of their product. They’re shelf stable products. Now, to, to get ahead of it.
00;11;54;15 – 00;12;15;02
RYAN
And Nike, they had one where their whole campaign shop now before prices rise. It was a campaign Nike ran a campaign that was arguably not creative at all and just said, shop now before prices rise, before you, before summer hits. Get those. Get those new running shoes now. Don’t wait. And then caterpillar adding a little bit of creativity.
00;12;15;02 – 00;12;38;29
RYAN
They said building through uncertainty.
JEN
Well and and even car ads changing really quickly. I mean, this has been probably 2 or 3 weeks now that I saw Nissan ran, a commercial that looks like any other commercial they’ve run except the voiceover talked about their parts being or their cars being made in America and, you know, keeping prices stable through tariffs.
00;12;39;01 – 00;12;56;26
JEN
That’s, I’ve never seen that in my career. I have never seen it in my career. But also, we live in an age where you can rapidly adapt, and change up your creative really quickly. And we are seeing that shift happen, like, right, right in front of our eyes. So, who knows what’s going to happen with the tariffs?
00;12;56;26 – 00;13;19;07
JEN
We’re not getting into that today and we don’t know how long we’ll be in it. But being adaptable to the situation while building empathy and urgency at the same time is a balance that I think we’re seeing some people, some advertisers really master it and we are seeing some put their head in the sand.
ASHLEY
Yeah. I think that’s a really good point Jen.
00;13;19;07 – 00;13;39;29
ASHLEY
And it’s not just Nissan. You know we’re seeing it all across the industry. Ford’s also saying the same thing. And and so at that point when you’re all using kind of the same urgency message what differentiates them at that point?
JEN
Right. Right. Basically the only differentiation they have is the advertisers who are not doing it. So not good for your brand as well.
00;13;39;29 – 00;13;56;28
JEN
Back to the age of AD bridge, right?
ASHLEY
Exactly.
RYAN
That was our tariff talk for today?
ASHLEY
We’re done triggering Jen I think at this point.
JEN
Thank you. Going to go take some l-theanine or something now and calm myself down.
RYAN
Now let’s talk a little bit more about our topic today. Here’s another. We call it connecting the dots.
00;13;56;28 – 00;14;21;04
RYAN
But really it is about maximizing that the content that you have Jen you want to kick us off?
JEN
Yeah. I mean marketing has always meant managing a lot of different moving parts. And it is really difficult sometimes to see the bigger picture when you are in the middle of the picture. I mean, I think about you go up to a store and it looks closed because nobody has thought about whether you can see the lights from the outside or maybe whether the open sign is visible.
00;14;21;04 – 00;14;48;26
JEN
Right? It’s it’s really about stepping back and looking at the entire business and what you’re trying to achieve. So, Ashley, you are often overseeing multiple initiatives with multiple clients. You’re overseeing the brand, the customer experience, reputation. Sometimes we’re we’re thinking about the physical environment. It’s easy to miss critical elements or lose objectivity when you are working with a client.
00;14;48;26 – 00;15;14;14
JEN
I want to dig into how you help them look at that and see that objective picture here, and how you build plans that not only meet their needs, but also provide refreshingly meaningful results.
ASHLEY
Yeah. I think one thing that I’ve really pushed myself to do in the last couple of years is really take the time to plan and think it through, which I know in marketing where I feel like we’re always just going from one campaign to the next campaign.
00;15;14;14 – 00;15;30;23
ASHLEY
And, you know, we feel like we’re behind because everything, the timelines, just keep getting moved up and up. And so I’ve had the opportunity to do some strategic planning meetings with a couple of my clients and really sit down and like, okay, you know what went well last year? What are some opportunities for this next coming year?
00;15;30;28 – 00;15;54;03
ASHLEY
And let’s get really specific on like what the goal is, is it, you know, rolling out a new service line. Is it, you know, wanting to get more followers, more customers, build trust. There’s all different types of goals that go so beyond just making more money or sales, if you will. And so, you know, thinking through how can we have each activity?
00;15;54;03 – 00;16;11;06
ASHLEY
I like to say different, you know, marketing activities. How can we have each marketing activity build on itself and be connected to each other? So say, you know, we have an email campaign going out about this specific thing. Well, what is what’s the experience like for your consumer once they get that email, where are they going next? Okay.
00;16;11;09 – 00;16;28;17
ASHLEY
They’re on your website. What does the experience look like on your website? How does that tie in to what you’re doing on social? How does that tie into some press releases that you’re doing? Or I think that really sounds kind of cheesy, but like taking that moment and like stepping back and thinking, putting yourself in your customer’s shoes.
00;16;28;17 – 00;16;49;29
ASHLEY
I think that’s where I get to, like, leverage some of that journalism background that I have is, every story, I had to think, okay, I am I’m the person sitting at home on my couch. I and my self, the journalist has three minutes to discuss this really intense topic. Where do I start? What’s their base level of knowledge and how deep can I get into it?
00;16;50;00 – 00;17;07;11
ASHLEY
You know, and so really like looking at every single thing that we do from the outside perspective is so helpful because, you know, you’ll read something and it’s like, oh, well, I know this and, you know, you assume so much that it’s so helpful when you can even, like, give it to someone else who has no clue about what you’re doing.
00;17;07;11 – 00;17;27;03
ASHLEY
Like, hey, read this. Does this make sense? What’s missing? And sometimes that takes a little bit of, like, humility, you know, to to open the door and, like, let people let people in, if you will. But I think that that’s been, really kind of successful. Also, looking at defining who your audience is, we want to appeal to everyone.
00;17;27;03 – 00;17;47;07
ASHLEY
Everyone does. Right? Like we want everyone to be our customer. But when everyone is your customer, you lose like your fans, your fan base. And that’s something that I’ve, I’ve been reading a little bit more about recently is that, you know, word of mouth these days is so powerful. Everyone’s using AI. The more everyone uses AI, the more we all sound the same.
00;17;47;14 – 00;18;06;18
ASHLEY
For instance, with Ford and Nissan, they’re talking the exact same, you know, about, you know, locking in your price or about, you know, price sensitivity. But how can they kind of connect to their fan base, if you will? You know, that’s that’s where their message is going to resonate most because they don’t need to differentiate themselves from Nissan.
00;18;06;18 – 00;18;29;29
ASHLEY
They already have.
JEN
How do they how do they remind people why they consistently choose that brand of car, that make, that model over their competitors while still having that, let’s say, tariff forward message?
ASHLEY
Exactly. And I think that was something that’s been really helpful too is like defining your audience and getting really specific. And, it’s probably a little taboo to talk about.
00;18;29;29 – 00;18;47;24
ASHLEY
But, you know, in media you have, your viewer, if you will, it’s a whole persona. They have a name, much like a lot of brands have a persona for their customer, their customers, the news also does as well. And they don’t want you to know that. But there is that.
JEN
Deep secrets from from Ashley.
00;18;47;24 – 00;19;11;18
ASHLEY
Very deep secrets.
JEN
Are you out of your NDA period now?
ASHLEY
Yes, I am out of my NDA period. Actually. We’re good. And so it’s like, why would Sarah care about this story? That wasn’t her name, but we’ll we’ll give it that to her. And so, you know, kind of thinking through that lens of like, who is the audience that I am most likely to convert to whatever it is, a donation, a sale.
00;19;11;20 – 00;19;28;04
ASHLEY
What do they want? What speaks to them? What’s their pain points? Because my pain point is not the same as your pain point. And, and so I think that that’s been really helpful too, is like we have to be able to narrow in and sometimes I feel like that’s really hard for clients to hear because they want as many customers as possible.
00;19;28;04 – 00;19;51;19
ASHLEY
And while I also want that we have to be really clear and like who you’re serving and what they need. And so that’s something that I’ve been pushing myself and our teams to do more and more as well.
RYAN
And going back to that, the connecting the dots, you mentioned, a direct mail piece that then has an email marketing component that then has a landing page that goes to each one of those pieces or activities.
00;19;51;19 – 00;20;10;13
RYAN
Those are those dots that you are so good at, at connecting. So really a campaign is one of those connect the dots pictures, right?
ASHLEY
Exactly. One thing that I really love to do is dig into the data. And again, I’m big numbers like I love a good number and I want to know what like why what’s the why behind that number.
00;20;10;15 – 00;20;26;26
ASHLEY
So one of our clients we started looking at like, okay, what are the keywords that people are clicking on the most? Like, what are people searching for when they’re searching for this client? And we were able to find that, I think there was a certain competitor that was also getting a lot of clicks around some of the same keywords.
00;20;26;26 – 00;20;44;06
ASHLEY
And so we’re like, well, why don’t we run a comparison campaign? And, and so it’s driven by data. And so then we’re like, okay, so we wrote a bunch of ads around that. What’s the differentiator between our brand versus their brand? And so okay, we’ve got the ads running for that. But then where are we sending them.
00;20;44;08 – 00;21;10;27
ASHLEY
We need to have a page that’s super specific. If if our ads say this and people are clicking on them, clearly they want more information about it. So if that’s not also the experience that you’re getting on the landing page, that’s a huge miss. So we wrote a specific landing page that directly compared those two brands. And then, you know, had a specific form that would go through so that the sales person then when they’re getting that hand off, know exactly where they came from, exactly what motivated them to get there.
00;21;11;00 – 00;21;34;16
ASHLEY
And then, of course, part of connecting the dots is circling back around with sales, which could be its own podcast as well. Marketing and Sales. How do we get along? How do we play in the sandbox and how do we help each other?
ANNIE
Oh Hey, it’s Annie with another producer’s note. It is its own podcast. If you want to learn more about sales and marketing and how they can work together, go back and listen to season one, episode six of Think Fresh with Jill Mast.
00;21;34;18 – 00;21;56;06
ANNIE
We’ll link it in the show notes. Okay, moving on
ASHLEY
Again, part of connecting the dots is making sure that the whole experience that your customer or your consumer is getting is thought through and makes sense.
RYAN
And I think that sales connection, that’s a huge piece because marketers like like you said, it’s a the hot topic. Marketers are like once the lead comes through, they’re done.
00;21;56;10 – 00;22;15;08
RYAN
But it is so helpful for that sales team then to know this person or this this lead cares a lot about the competition. So when they’re talking with them on the phone, they can pepper in some of that competition. Like we don’t do things like X, Y, and Z that makes it so much more helpful. And and like you said, it’s a it’s a thought through process.
00;22;15;10 – 00;22;31;15
ASHLEY
Well, and everything is marketing and sales can feed marketing. You know, we want to know what’s the next campaign we should be running. What are the frequently asked questions that your salespeople get? What’s the biggest pain point? Where do they fall off in the funnel? These are all things that can help you fuel – What’s your next piece of content?
00;22;31;15 – 00;22;50;23
ASHLEY
What’s your next campaign like? I, I just, I think that that like gets me so excited, which is nerdy.
RYAN
So Ashley you were saying how, the last example you gave, it started with a direct mail piece, and it became so much more. Some of the other things that I’ve seen you do are, are taking like video footage, for example.
00;22;50;23 – 00;23;11;19
RYAN
And this is prevalent in my mind because we had Annie talk about this on, on a previous episode, but and we kind of also just talked about it when we were covering Ford and, and Nissan. They had all this footage and they already created a spot with this footage. But just because that footage is done does not mean you can’t use that footage for something else, right?
00;23;11;22 – 00;23;29;25
ASHLEY
Exactly, exactly. And this comes back to putting yourself in your consumersshoes. I’ve seen a piece of content so many times. I’m tired of it. I never want to see it again. Surely everyone else is so tired of it. They are not living in the same universe as you. They have so many other things throughout their day.
00;23;29;29 – 00;23;49;01
ASHLEY
Just because they may be scrolled on a video, watched it a year ago doesn’t mean that they’re going to remember, like, hey, I saw that again. And so there’s just so many opportunities to reuse and leverage, and I like to use the word leverage instead, because it sounds like we’re really just using our resources correctly, which is what you should be doing.
00;23;49;01 – 00;24;09;02
ASHLEY
But yeah. So a lot of times I think this also goes back to like that scrappy mindset of being like a one woman band. If I can go and reuse something that I’ve shot before that saved me, gosh, an hour and and you know, my day when I was doing so many other things. And so I kind of like to bring that mindset here as well.
00;24;09;05 – 00;24;30;24
ASHLEY
You know, photo / video shoots are an investment for clients. They’re they’re big investment. And so how can we leverage what we’ve done in the past and build upon that in a new way? And sometimes it is as easy as going back into your library and looking for, different, different, you know, shots that relate to whatever you’re trying to say now.
00;24;30;26 – 00;24;50;22
ASHLEY
I mean, if you would have asked me, have I seen that Ford commercial before? I don’t know, they all look the same also. So I probably would have said, yes, it’s a car driving in dirt, I don’t know. Yes. But yeah, I just think that it’s such a good opportunity and it’s a way for you to be able to be more, I want to say reactive because that kind of can have like a negative connotation with it.
00;24;50;28 – 00;25;12;15
ASHLEY
But you can be quick, you can be ready for the moment. And so I think that that is super powerful. It’s a good use of things that you’ve already invested in. And it’s also a great way to build consistency. I always think back to, you know, in and, when I was in school and they always talked about like the rule or the power of three, people need to hear something three times in order to really absorb it.
00;25;12;17 – 00;25;30;02
ASHLEY
People need to be able to hear it three times in order to be able to trust that it’s real. And so I always think about, like, you know, we want to reach people multiple times with, you know, maybe the same message or a different message. But, so I think, like, you know, when you’re scrolling on your feed and you see it and you’re like, oh, wait, I think I’ve seen that before.
00;25;30;08 – 00;26;03;00
ASHLEY
I think that’s actually a great thing because you’re building that like that, familiarity and that trust
JEN
And recall. Exactly, exactly. I like to think of it as cornerstone content, but, you know, thinking about it, if you’re thinking about it from a year perspective, maybe creating four big pieces of content that then you pull these pieces off of and you pull a transcript from the video and you write a blog about it, and you chop it up into pieces for shorter ads, like using that investment that you made and not just playing it once and saying, okay, we did it.
00;26;03;00 – 00;26;23;29
JEN
I think nonprofits are really often the worst at this. Like, we want this video for our annual meeting. And then they maybe they put it on social media right after the annual meeting, but then it doesn’t come back up again, like you made an investment in that content. Use it. Use it multiple different ways and in multiple different formats.
00;26;24;02 – 00;26;59;25
JEN
And also when you are building a content library, sometimes you have pieces and parts from those shoots that you never even used, that you can go back and you can pull from, and you can freshen something up and make it look brand new, but still have the same consistent messaging.
ASHLEY
Exactly. Yes. I that, that, just reminded me of another, example for instance is we same thing we had kind of like this, this video for a nonprofit client, it’s like, okay, how can we cut this down, put it on social media as a tease to make them sign up for their newsletter, which has maybe a transfer story about it, which could also lead.
00;26;59;25 – 00;27;17;21
ASHLEY
Then if they’re interested in learning more to a landing page with maybe the full video, like there’s so many ways to use and leverage, I think sometimes we get a little bit scared that we’re like, we’re being too repetitive, but there’s a way to kind of tease someone along a journey where, they feel like they get to discover the information for themselves.
00;27;17;21 – 00;27;36;00
ASHLEY
So taking a piece of it and using that to I mean, that’s also like the journalism part of me, like get your best sound bite, put it in the commercial, get them to tune into the 6:00 news. It’s it’s all about like, leveraging and just really using the heck out of whatever you’ve got, to your advantage.
00;27;36;00 – 00;28;00;10
ASHLEY
And I think that’s really important, especially for nonprofits.
JEN
So actually, sometimes a client will bring us, a statistic, right. Like, and and that’s great. I mean, it is what underpins everything, but, I’ve heard you say this before. Numbers are cold, right? How how do you think through those opportunities when a client says, we want to talk about our 8% growth here or, you know, whatever that number is?
00;28;00;13 – 00;28;18;13
ASHLEY
As a journalist, I do. I love a number, but you always have to put that number in context, right? So 8% growth. What does that mean to me? What does that mean to someone to my customer? You know, thinking in the journalism lens, what does that number here in Cedar Rapids matter to someone up in Dubuque or, you know, thinking through your whole coverage area.
00;28;18;15 – 00;28;36;15
ASHLEY
And so, you know, we talked about the Met Gala earlier and, I think, what was it, $31 million raised? Was that just this year?
RYAN
Yeah, they raised $31 million. It was their their highest grossing year.
ASHLEY
Which $31 million. That is crazy. But what I automatically want to know the why. I need to know the why. What are they using it for?
00;28;36;15 – 00;28;57;19
ASHLEY
Why? Why do they need to raise money for this organization? How does that impact me? My life? How does that impact our state? Just all of those ways that we can think about putting numbers in perspective. And I especially try to push our nonprofit clients into this because so often we’re asking for money. And so there’s so many places you can give your money these days.
00;28;57;19 – 00;29;19;09
ASHLEY
You can give it to all sorts of organizations. So why give it? Why give it to them? And so one thing that, you know, I try to I try to really push for and dig for is, okay, what is this money going to be used for? And then beyond that, how have we used it? How has that impacted whatever their, you know, their area of interest is.
00;29;19;11 – 00;29;40;07
ASHLEY
So let’s say, you know, we’re looking for a $50 donation that will go to this program. This program benefited ten people last year. Some people are like, oh, ten is not that much. Some people are like ten is so many. But it’s really all about how we put that in context. So if we were to tell one of those ten people’s story, suddenly we’ve really put that number into context.
00;29;40;07 – 00;30;07;27
ASHLEY
We’ve given it a life.
JEN
You’ve humanized it.
ASHLEY
Emotion, exactly. We’re we’re all just wanting to like, relate and connect. And we want to know that where we’re putting our money, our effort, our time is doing good. And so, you know, finding out that I allowed, you know, a woman or whoever, a person, an opportunity to get their first apartment or, you know, not wonder where their next meal is coming from, like, that is so, so exciting.
00;30;08;04 – 00;30;29;00
ASHLEY
And so I. Yeah, any time that you’ve got a number that you really want to highlight, think about how can I put this number into perspective? How can I get someone to care? Why should they care? Why does that number matter? There is a reason. Sometimes you just really have to dig for it.
JEN
Yeah, I remember when infographics were the big thing and I remember just thinking, these are just numbers on a page.
00;30;29;00 – 00;30;49;19
JEN
I know they’re exciting. And sometimes the numbers move right?
RYAN
Ooh, sometimes they’re moving!
JEN
But they still didn’t tell a story. And people say, let the numbers tell the story. Let the story tell the story every time.
ASHLEY
Or let the numbers be a catalyst to the story. You know, like, maybe that’s what draws them in like, oh, 75% or, you know, whatever that is.
00;30;49;19 – 00;31;07;05
ASHLEY
But then it’s like, yeah, you’ve got to put that human aspect to it. And I love that.
RYAN
And when you can look at those numbers, and some people might be connecting those dots on their own, but when you can connect those dots for them, and I think you do a great job of that with your clients. Like they’ll bring you that stat and you, you think through it like a, like a story.
00;31;07;08 – 00;31;24;04
RYAN
You think through it like a news story. And I think that’s why you have such great PR opportunities for your clients because, you know, like, okay, this is a stat, but let’s get that one story. Do you have any other tips like that when you are, either pitching a piece or or connecting those dots for your clients?
00;31;24;06 – 00;31;48;26
ASHLEY
Well, another thing is always, oh, I know, I’ll just say it and we can cut it if we don’t want it. But one thing, and that was always kind of like “dumb it down” and it sounds bad, but, you know, we’re reaching a mass audience education levels and people’s backgrounds, and, you know, how they understand and interpret things is so different.
JEN
And just how much bandwidth they have to even consume the message.
00;31;48;26 – 00;32;14;11
ASHLEY
Exactly, exactly. So always thinking through like, how can I make this as simple as possible without, without like losing some of the, the, the jazz of it? We’ll say. So I always try to say, like, you know, just from the, you know, whatever it is, a press release or, or however you’re introducing something, always think through what is the simplest way to say this.
00;32;14;13 – 00;32;34;28
ASHLEY
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have to be creative. It just means how is what’s the easiest way for someone to digest this? Other other tips for for pitching ideas? I just have to scream this really fast. It’s so simple. But if you’re sending out a press release, send a photo. Send a photo with your press release.
00;32;35;00 – 00;32;54;19
RYAN
Why?
ASHLEY
Yes. Great, great. Great question. I had a quota that I, and I don’t know if they still do this, but I had a quota of web stories that I had to post a month. So in my in so much of the downtime that I had in my job, which was zero, I needed to be able to kind of just repost, other people’s press releases.
00;32;54;22 – 00;33;13;08
ASHLEY
And I’ll be honest, if it didn’t have a photo, it wasn’t going up, because that was more time that I had to spend to look for some generic generic graphic that I like a generic graphic is not going to get anyone to click on it like I cares about that. So that is like one of the simplest things that you can do that really goes far.
00;33;13;10 – 00;33;36;03
RYAN
What do you do when you get some good feedback from either your client’s customers or your clients on pieces? What do you keep using it? Do you try to pivot it? What have you done for your clients?
ASHLEY
So we ended up taking a direct mail piece for a, for an annual appeal. We got so much feedback that like, wow, that really connected the dots for me for the first time, and then turning that into a donor leave behind.
00;33;36;03 – 00;33;56;28
ASHLEY
So, you know, you’re speaking to some big donors. You need some sort of visual. Clearly that already connected with your audience. There’s no reason why we wouldn’t kind of tailor that to whatever the next need is. Some organizations are so complex in how they operate, especially when you’re, you know, you’re asking people for money. They need to be able to understand what the benefit is.
00;33;57;05 – 00;34;18;03
ASHLEY
And so if your audience is telling you that that resonated with them, do not bury what you did. So always looking for ways that you can help connect the dots. And and I guess one way I can put that in perspective is as a journalist, I am learning a new topic every day. Today I’m going to be a specialist in, in clean water.
00;34;18;03 – 00;34;41;29
ASHLEY
Tomorrow I’m going to interview a doctor about influenza. The next day I’m going to talk to an engineer about a bridge. I am not an expert in any of these things, but I have to be for the day in order to correctly inform the public about why this matters to them. So, you know, think like the kindness of thinking it through for the journalists and trying to give them a one sheet when they’re there with you.
00;34;42;05 – 00;35;05;09
ASHLEY
Give them a fact sheet, give them like help put it in perspective for them. Hey, you know, here’s the press release. Here’s an event. We have someone for you to speak to speak to. They benefited from this program. Like, just like, help lay it out for them, too. I think sometimes, like, they want to make the event sound so jazzy and we just need to keep it simple.
00;35;05;09 – 00;35;25;17
ASHLEY
Sometimes that get them there, keep it simple. If people want to learn more, they will. And I think that’s one thing that people always want to say. Well, we need to say this and we need to say that. And then this person needs credit and that person needs credit. At the end of the day, if we can just get the information out there, hook the audience if they are interested, they will learn more.
00;35;25;22 – 00;35;44;29
ASHLEY
They will find out who the sponsor was. They will find out who, you know, funded the program. It’s sometimes we’re so worried about who’s going to get credit that we just muddy down the, the actual point so much that it doesn’t matter anymore.
JEN
It’s the same thing when people want to put everything on the home page of a website, right?
00;35;45;00 – 00;36;05;00
JEN
Like you can’t put everything on the home page of a website.
ASHLEY
And you should not.
JEN
But I am, you know, when you are talking about reusing that, you were talking about the annual appeal piece, reusing that content in different ways. Maybe to some people in marketing that might feel like we’re not producing something new and exciting.
00;36;05;00 – 00;36;27;04
JEN
But, you know, what we are doing is we’re building consistency, which builds recall, which builds brand awareness and loyalty. So, you know, it’s not – we always want to create more. You know, we do. But there is so much benefit and staying on message and connecting the dots and re leveraging some of that content does that for you as a marketer.
00;36;27;06 – 00;36;49;10
ASHLEY
Exactly. And the next iteration of that could be creative in a different way. But you don’t have to worry about saying something new. You can focus on kind of the creativity of of it, of whatever it looks like. And so I think that that’s also an exciting challenge as well. So yeah, I, I do think that we’re always looking for the next thing, but sometimes it’s about building that consistency.
00;36;49;10 – 00;37;09;17
ASHLEY
Not everyone has seen what you did. So show it to them again and then again.
RYAN
…and then again! Right? Three times.
ASHLEY
Three times.
RYAN
So Ashley, you’ve created this campaign. You’ve connected all of the dots. But where do you go from there? Where do you how do you keep going?
ASHLEY
Measure, refine and refresh. You have to be able to measure your work.
00;37;09;17 – 00;37;26;00
ASHLEY
And that is something that we’ve heard from other marketers in our space. Is, wanting more information on how do you prove value? How do you show, how do you show the value that marketing is doing? And especially now when marketing budgets are kind of up in the air, then it always seems like the first thing to go.
00;37;26;00 – 00;37;48;27
ASHLEY
You have to be able to show your work, if you will. And so part of that is measuring whatever you can as part of your campaign, whether it’s open rates, whether it’s click through rates, whether it’s impressions, engagements, like literally whatever you can measure, start there. You have to be able to benchmark yourself. Sometimes I think it can be a little bit scary because, you know, is it going to be good?
00;37;48;27 – 00;38;07;29
ASHLEY
Is it going to be bad? Is it unimpressive? What does that number even mean? You have to be able to get the number in order to understand what it means. So, and it provides you some, some real data to benchmark against in the future. And if you if you don’t start measuring and benchmarking yourself, you never know. Is this campaign resonating?
00;38;07;29 – 00;38;24;27
ASHLEY
What do I need to change? Like we love a good AB test. I think AB tests are great. You can get a little bit of data on okay, what message is resonating more, what image is resonating more? We have to be able to start somewhere. We have to be able to measure. And so that’s my that’s my biggest tip.
00;38;25;05 – 00;38;46;02
ASHLEY
Start measuring. Even if you’re scared you have to do it.
JEN
And data can come in a lot of different forms. So we can be driving leads. But if they aren’t qualified leads, if we don’t get that feedback, then we can’t improve the quality of the leads. If we think, wow, we’re driving tons of people to this page and they’re filling out the form and none of them close on the other end.
00;38;46;04 – 00;39;01;22
JEN
Maybe it’s just crappy salespeople, but chances are we need to tweak something on the lead generation side of it to get it dialed in to what they need. Don’t be afraid of the negative.
ASHLEY
Exactly. That can show you. That can also be an indicator, what your audience is looking for. Where did they fall off in the funnel?
00;39;01;24 – 00;39;21;12
ASHLEY
What does that mean? And how can we turn that into a positive? And the next thing that we do?
RYAN
Now it’s time for our segment called Creative Briefs. This is where we dig into a marketing campaign, company or idea and see what insights we can glean from their marketing moves. Before we get started on our creative briefs today I have a pop quiz.
00;39;21;14 – 00;39;48;25
ASHLEY
Shoot it!
RYAN
Okay, the pop quiz is which of these four posters takes the shortest amount of time to cook?
ASHLEY
E all of the above.
RYAN
Your options are linguine, spaghetti, fusilli and penne. Which of those four takes the shortest amount of time to cook?
ASHLEY
Spaghetti?
JEN
I agree spaghetti. It’s going to be the third one.
RYAN
You want me read them again?
00;39;48;25 – 00;40;09;02
JEN
It’s not fusili.
ASHLEY
No. Tell me the answer.
RYAN
You guys were correct. It was spaghetti. How did you know that?
JEN
Because it’s the thinnest one.
ASHLEY
I’m a pasta connoisseur.
JEN
I knew it wasn’t fusili because that was what I had googled because I saw it in the show notes here, so.
ASHLEY
Linguine is a fat noodle.
00;40;09;05 – 00;40;28;13
ASHLEY
That’s taking a while.
RYAN
Okay, so you guys have a whole lot more insight into how long it takes to cook pasta, because I don’t make pasta because I don’t, I’m not good at cooking it. I always end up burning it or making it too soft and mushy outside of throwing it at the, at my wall to see if it sticks, I don’t know how else to do it, but I don’t want to get too far ahead of ourselves.
00;40;28;13 – 00;40;55;14
RYAN
Jen, do you care to explain our creative brief this week?
JEN
I do, so, this, I came across this from another podcast and I just thought it was the cutest thing. So, the pasta company Barilla, which I may or may not be pronouncing right, and I can’t roll L’s or R’s or anything like that. So Barilla launched a campaign that was, in partnership with Spotify, and it was meant to give you a time to cook any of their pastas.
00;40;55;21 – 00;41;20;16
JEN
So I believe that fusilli is the longest pasta. So there were more songs on that playlist. And I think it had the song Help from the Beatles, which I thought was funny. Maybe for you in particular, since you can’t cook pasta at all. But it was just a really great eye catching way to do it. But when you read into a little bit more about the campaign, part of it was a lot of people overcook their pasta, or undercook it.
00;41;20;16 – 00;41;42;04
JEN
And if you know anything about cooking, you can’t go back and cook pasta after you’ve undercooked it. And also in Italy, apparently using leftover pasta is a part of a main dish as well. So they want you to cook it perfectly. So they gave you playlists for each type of pasta and the cover art on these playlists is really, really cute.
00;41;42;07 – 00;42;03;18
JEN
So just that’s like from a creative perspective, what a great way to help people do a better job and also get your brand in front of them when they’re cooking dinner and they’re playing it on their device in their kitchen.
ASHLEY
What a great way to connect the dots and think about the whole customer journey.
JEN
There you go connecting the dots, connecting the pasta!
00;42;03;18 – 00;42;19;22
RYAN
And I do really like it because it’s going after that. Like like you said, Jen, they they were struggling with people, not knowing how to cook pasta. So therefore you just don’t do it.
JEN
So I will say it is on the back of the box. How to cook pasta.
RYAN
People don’t read. We know that.
ASHLEY
What a fun multimedia way.
00;42;19;22 – 00;42;42;09
ASHLEY
Like what a fun way to engage your customers and also very smart to partner with Spotify. They’re obviously working to you know it’s a it’s a pat each other’s back situation.
JEN
Absolutely. It’s connecting the dots as you said.
RYAN
So this reminded me when when you first mentioned this Jen, it reminded me of the different songs that you can sing in your head when you’re giving CPR to somebody.
00;42;42;11 – 00;43;07;24
RYAN
So it’s equating music and things that people love with
JEN
That Staying Alive campaign was brilliant that they did. I mean, that I thankfully – I’m going to make noise on the – thankfully, I have never had to perform CPR on anybody. But I do know that I just need to basically keep doing that to the beat of the song Staying Alive by the BeeGees is one of the greatest songs ever made.
00;43;07;27 – 00;43;27;03
JEN
Until like, hopefully you have a positive outcome, but it was brilliant.
RYAN
Exactly.
JEN
It’s easy to remember.
RYAN
And they’ve created, I think this is the American Heart Association. They’ve then also created other playlists that have other songs that match that BPM, so that if if you don’t know the song by the Bee Gees.
JEN
If you’re not a child of the 70s, is that what you’re saying?
00;43;27;03 – 00;43;47;11
ASHLEY
I was going to say, I just need to plug my girl real quick. Chappell Roan – Pink Pony Club also the same. Yes CPR yes.
JEN
You wouldn’t think.
ASHLEY
Pink Pony Club.
ANNIE
Okay, I’m going to have to cut you off.
ASHLEY
Oh, yeah. Sorry.
ANNIE
Copyright purposes.
ASHLEY
Copyright purposes. We could not include me singing.
RYAN
And it sounded way too close to Chappell Roan.
00;43;47;16 – 00;44;10;00
ASHLEY
It was so on note.
JEN
It really was.
RYAN
But I do think that Jen, you also kind of mentioned playing it when they’re in their kitchen. And so many people have alexas, they have speakers and ways to listen to music in their kitchen. I really love that idea and I will be honest, I don’t have a kitchen timer. I use my phone a lot, and if I could just listen to a playlist and then that will be when I’m done. Genius
00;44;10;02 – 00;44;32;03
JEN
But you Ryan, do you eat carbs?
RYAN
No, I would never.
ASHLEY
What a sad, sad life. I love a good carb, but also I saw it go viral on social media, so that’s, you know, not only is it fun for, like, it’s actually, like, purposeful. It actually is so much fun and really created a buzz around their buzz.
JEN
And hopefully decreases food waste right?
ASHLEY
Here for that.
JEN
Win win.
00;44;32;03 – 00;44;49;22
ASHLEY
Thinking about that example, like, what are some ways or what are some things that, you could put into context with music or things that are really familiar with people that kind of relate back to your brand, whether it’s, you know, washing your hands for however long based on some music or what, however that might apply to you.
00;44;49;22 – 00;45;07;10
ASHLEY
This is kind of a a fun little creative, brain puzzle that you can think on, right?
JEN
And brands can build mnemonic devices even with their jingles and their music that they play. Like you all know, the McDonald’s song, I’m not going to sing it for you because nobody wants to hear that, but you know it when I say it.
00;45;07;13 – 00;45;12;24
JEN
And then there’s this.
00;45;12;26 – 00;45;44;07
JEN
So, this week, Skype was finally laid to rest, by Microsoft, its parent company, which still has teams, which I actually think is worse than Skype, frankly. But, you know, this was what got us all started on video conferencing. It made it accessible to families, to businesses. So, you know, would we have gotten through COVID if Skype hadn’t paved the way for us?
00;45;44;07 – 00;45;51;00
JEN
So, let’s just take an awkward moment of silence for Skype right now.
00;45;55;04 – 00;46;16;05
ASHLEY
Oh, leave it to me to ruin a moment of silence with a little giggle. Sorry, they didn’t call me Cadet Giggles in ROTC for nothing. So Cadet Giggles signing off.
JEN
That was disrespectful to Skype.
ASHLEY
Sorry, Skype.
RYAN
Ashley, outside of ruining a beautiful, touching tribute to Skype, I do have to thank you for being here. You provided some amazing insights to our listeners.
00;46;16;05 – 00;46;34;10
RYAN
The same insights that you share with your clients day in and day out. Thank you for being on Think Fresh.
ASHLEY
Thank you for having me here.
JEN
It was so fun having you.
ASHLEY
I’m looking forward to next time.
JEN
Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Think Fresh.
RYAN
And remember, the conversation does not have to end here.
00;46;34;14 – 00;47;05;26
RYAN
If you liked what you heard today, be sure to follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram. Review our show on whatever you listen to your podcast on, or share all your marketing trials and triumphs by shooting us an email at info@thinkdenovo.com with the subject line dear de novo so we don’t miss it.
JEN
And while you wait eagerly for our next episode, you can get your fix by checking out our blog, freshthinking@blog.thinkdenovo.com stay tuned for more engaging conversations, laughs, and of course, marketing brilliance and be making fun of Ryan in the next episodes to come.
00;47;05;29 – 00;47;16;18
RYAN
Here’s to fresh thinking, sparking creativity, and never being boring. Bye friends!
JEN
Are we swearing on this or no?
